EMISSARY^7 (G²)

COMMISIONED by CHRIST 4 SHARING HIS LIFE/KEEPING IT REAL ADMIST THE LIES (II Cor. 5:17-21))

LAKELAND, FL: My thoughts….(Part 3)

Posted by Gabriel (G²) on June 25, 2008

When it comes to many saying of Lakeland “The Gospel’s NOT BEING PREACHED THERE, some have said completely different on the issue. One person I interacted with had this to say:

 

I was very apprehensive about Bentley. Most of my friends were very surprised when I said – I had left for Florida. I have not been to Brownsville or Toronto. I never travel for ‘eye candy’. I was very apprehensive about ’emma’ and the root of this revival but I’d rather go and have my pride hurt then not go – have my pride intact and miss a move of God. He has always kept me and I put my faith in Him.

The best thing about Lakeland is that its sooo not about Bentley. Those people going up with testimonies are coming from the crowd. I watched people get out of their wheelchairs. I also saw many try and not. I heard the people hollering “I’m healed” and Jesus got the glory. Not Bentley – in fact I was thinking maybe God was using him bc its pretty hard to think too kindly about someone whose been to jail for child molestation.
Personally — my friend was healed (powerful) but she has been bogged down in her spirtiual life with unforgiveness for the family that abused her daughter. It is significant for me that she received her healing and while there it was prophecied over her that she would not move in the gifts the Lord had given her until she forgave these people.
{{she had gone down to pray for a man in a wheelchair and I saw her on the floor crying – when she came back she said “I went to pray for him and he told me my whole life and that she was in unforgiveness”}}
I wonder how many others are stuck in unforgiveness toward their abusers and having this man touch them sooo powerfully is forcing them to rethink their own walk.
The most difficult time in my own life was to forgive the person who abused my own daughter. I know that I would not grow in Him until I could get past that.

I pray, really, that they make sure he does not reoffend and that he too realizes he is not special – that God is using him bc he is nothing. Few people get exposed like this and are then put in this kind of position. He will come under more attack bc he is moving in the Lord then if he just stayed in his own little world.

Most of us will never know what it is like to walk in ‘His’ power and have the devil go after you with everything he has bc of the work of the Lord. Bentley can expect to be ridiculed and publically humiliated for his past. I would suggest he knows what is coming. The bigger this gets the more likely his past will be all over Fox. CNN, CBS etc etc.
There is no reason to give the devil the glory for revival, nor do we need to give credit to Bentley – it is a God thing. Bentley or someone else – God will raise up someone but it should always be someone who people won’t think is infallible bc we all know what happens when our eyes get on the man and not on the Lord.

I have been edified and renewed in my faith, my church is on fire as are others – the Lord is being lifted and men are being drawn to Him, certainly not to Bentley.
I pray the Lord gives him the strength to endure the trials to come

The gospel is given – and some teaching. Most of it is about the healings and testimonies. Christ is being glorified for it so I can’t imagine why this particular complaint. Only bc there isn’t enough time to do everything well. The two – three hours that Bentley is on TV are not the whole of what happens. It takes a lot of time to go through the people and get them on stage etc etc. His teaching isn’t memorable. The gospel comes with signs and wonders and Bentley takes no credit. A few times he did things or said things that I thought ut oh! that will be on Youtube. Nothing real bad but he is certainly a character.

The offering isn’t mentioned until 11:30 (when many 20-25%) have left. There is no hawking CDs and books and few tables. No charge for parking and when the offering is taken there is not a lot of ‘seed talk’. No pushing for money – in fact when Bentley mentioned credit cards – he suggested that people not go into debt.

 

Regarding what I do know of the cross being proclaimed, the lady behind this quote  said it best: The whole of what’s happening in the Revival down there isn’t what’s in the clips or on the camera. One of my friends went down there and according to the testimony he gave, the majority of the revivals is the fact that people are witnessing to numerous others on their own time. He went down there to check it out—and though his friends were doing one thing, there were numerous times he and many others went out to tell others who Christ was—Why he came, Why he had to die, His blood being shed, God loving them like John 3:16 says, etc. And then, when people came to the revival, it was already expected that they’d be up to date with things since they’d already been informed. Indeed, Bently has apparently told people what the revival’s not about him and that they don’t need to focus on him—-and for that matter, he even encouraged people to know that unless they went out and witnessed to people about the power of Christ and who He was, there’s no point even coming to the meetings. He also encouraged people to exercise their giftings if they were following the Lord and to pray for one another regarding healings/prophetic words and things. He wanted them to go out and preach the Gospel. My friend also alerted me to the fact that of course many went down there for the WRONG REASONS—-“faking it”, choreographed “slain in the spirit” aND TRYING to work things up…..and that bothered him. Regardless, though, he also made clear that it wasn’t like that for everyone going there—just like with anything, there was a “mixture”–TARES and WHEAT placed together. And one would have to go on a case-by-case basis when examining the issue since many unbelievers have been tripped out/impacted for the Lord. And they all the sincere believers who went down there had their unique stories of the wonderful things the Lord did for them, just as it’s been for me when I went to the “CALL” and from all the wonderful things I’ve witnessed the Lord do in my life that many still may not believe. I’ve brought this up before, if you remember ( #48, #49http://www.christiandiscussionforums…08#post2783108), with the individual who was a homosexual and got impacted by folks like that in Florida–and came to know the Gospel of Jesus saves.

Moreover, people saw that part of the witnessing was in the fact of telling others of those who had gifts in healings/working wonders and to check it out—-and when they came, seeing things happen out of the ordinary got their attention/tripped them out. Preaching on how Christ came to deal with the physical was apart of opening them up to the Spiritual….and to a degree, that’s how it was with Christ.

Someone once said this:

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Same old same old why do pple get so excited and run to revivals, when they can have there own revival in there heart ,most of these so called revivals are pure merchandising the anointing I would be careful of such.

My response: Why did they get excited when Jesus came in town or the apostles? Or flock to him?

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Matthew 14:35-36

35And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed.

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Matthew 8:13-34

Jesus Heals Many

14When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. 15He touched her hand and the fever left her, and she got up and began to wait on him.
16When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. 17This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
“He took up our infirmities
and carried our diseases.”[a]

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Matthew 15:29-31

Jesus Feeds the Four Thousand

29Jesus left there and went along the Sea of Galilee. Then he went up on a mountainside and sat down. 30Great crowds came to him, bringing the lame, the blind, the crippled, the mute and many others, and laid them at his feet; and he healed them. 31The people were amazed when they saw the mute speaking, the crippled made well, the lame walking and the blind seeing. And they praised the God of Israel.

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Mark 2

Jesus Heals a Paralytic

1A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2So many gathered that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them. 4Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on. 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

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Mark 3:9-14

9Because of the crowd he told his disciples to have a small boat ready for him, to keep the people from crowding him. 10For he had healed many, so that those with diseases were pushing forward to touch him. 11Whenever the evil[a] spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.” 12But he gave them strict orders not to tell who he was.

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Mark 6:56

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Luke 5

The Man With Leprosy

12While Jesus was in one of the towns, a man came along who was covered with leprosy.[a] When he saw Jesus, he fell with his face to the ground and begged him, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.”
13Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” And immediately the leprosy left him.

14Then Jesus ordered him, “Don’t tell anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.”

15Yet the news about him spread all the more, so that crowds of people came to hear him and to be healed of their sicknesses.

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<H5><H3>Luke 6:17-19 </H3>

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Blessings and Woes

17He went down with them and stood on a level place. A large crowd of his disciples was there and a great number of people from all over Judea, from Jerusalem, and from the coast of Tyre and Sidon, 18who had come to hear him and to be healed of their diseases. Those troubled by evil[a] spirits were cured, 19and the people all tried to touch him, because power was coming from him and healing them all.

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12The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon’s Colonnade. 13No one else dared join them, even though they were highly regarded by the people. 14Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number. 15As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. 16Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by evil[a] spirits, and all of them were healed.
The Apostles Persecuted
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</H5></H5></H5><H5>Acts 6

8Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.

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Acts 8:6-8

6When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7With shrieks, evil[a] spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city.

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Acts 14:3
So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders.

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8Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. 10This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.

11God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, 12so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.

13Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15(One day) the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?” 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

17When this became known to the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor. 18Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds. 19A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas.[d] 20In this way the word of the Lord spread widely and grew in power

When people hear of the miraculous, they naturally flock to wherever it occurs. They’re looking for something real/divine to connect to….and many of them have indeed found that in many revivals (Jonathan Edwards being one of them during the GREAT AWAKENING/OTHER Similar occurances). And seeing that many in the body of CHrist have been specifically gifted in gifts of healings/working wonders and you knew about it, I don’t think it’d be wrong to seek them out and prayerfully be benefited by that gift—–and moreover, regarding manifestations of the SPirit and some being bothered by it if it can’t be found in I Corinthians 12, there were various ways the Spirit showed up in SCRIPTURE and perhaps that can be adressed (: #29 #28 )

Of course, there needs to be caution since even false prophets can do the same thing (seemingly—though the key in telling the difference is whether or not the prophet’s miracles point one CLOSER TO CHRIST/THE GOSPEL or away—-Deuteronomy 13 & Deuteronomy 18, II Peter 2, Matthew 7, WHICH SAYS BY THEIR FRUIT ONE WILL KNOW THEM AS TRUE OR FALSE).—annd ultimately, PEOPLE’S HEARTS ARE THEIR OWN RESPONSIBILITY, just as it would be if genuine BIBLICAL teaching of the WOrd took place but some in attendance came and didn’t convert. That’s not a reflection on the teaching OR THE teacher 24/7

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        Someone, in seeing what I said here, said this elsewhere:
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OK, I can understand that the gospel may be being preached (outside the meetings seemingly) and people getting saved. Great! As far as I am concerned, I have no idea why the meetings headed by false prophets, who condone false prophets, in that case. Why are people not throwing Bentley out, on the basis of what he does say, which is weird and unbiblical, and his frankly unhelpful and uncritical associations with false teachers? Why do they need him, when there are real gospel preachers about? I maintain, its because they want the spectacular, they want to see the floor show and have the experience, regardless of what “brother” Todd is into.

If I were one of those gospel preachers, I would not want to take the new believers within a 100 miles of a ministry like Bentley’s.

Glad to see she’s glad that the Gospel’s being preached (and to note, Bently has done the same numerous times also—one of the evangelists who attends the youthcamps I’ve gone to since I was 12 knows Bently personally—had folks on mission trips with him in Africa where the Gospel was preached extensively and many were saved/delivered—and seeing how passionate for the Gospel/consistent the evangelist has been, I take his Word for it. His name’s Jason Kerr…and should you get the chance, look him up).

Also, to be frank, we may disagree in our views as to what a Biblical Prophet of God may be (and as do many in support of what’s happening in Florida and why they may not automatically view Bently as a Prophet—and though it’s long/I wish not to repeat everything verbatim, you can go here for more info on the issue if you’d like—Can Prophets make Mistakes?? ). In any case, some don’t even view him as a prophet—but simply as somone with the Biblical gift of being able to work miracles/wonders for the Lord like it was with Stephen ( Acts 6 Acts 6:7-9 )or Phillip in Acts 6 and Acts 8 (Acts 8 )

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1 Corinthians 12 1 Corinthians 12:28-30

28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[a]? Do all interpret?

John Piper wrote more on the issue here at his website under a thread entitled “Are Signs and Wonders for Today? (which I believe I referenced to you)

). Moreover, until I can see concrete evidence that he has denied the ESSENTIALS of the Gospel, I cannot write the man off as an unbeliever or someone not truly of the Lord. Acknowledge where his theology’s off and adress it quickly I can, as well as being discerning in seperating error from fact, but calling him an unbeliever I cannot go that far—no more than I can for YOU/I in any of the areas in our lives and in the lives of Biblical Characters throughout the OT/NT where there has either been sin/error (hidden or blantant). Making mistakes and teaching something one believes to be true but it turns out to be wrong doesn’t automatically qualify one as a false teacher—-otherwise, where does that leave you and I when we’ve done so ourselves (and for that matter, though we’re teaching now, may’ve experienced things and believe things which may be off base? Does that now make us false believers or teachers because of our own error?))

Again, IMHO, categories of error and the end FRUIT of one=life is what I look at—-and I don’t see enough of what’s described in II Peter 2 in Bently’s life to throw the label of “false teacher” at him without reservation/consideration. But perhaps that’ll change later…

I asked this before, and it was never adressed…..but I’ll ask again. If I may ask, though, how far would one be willing to take that? Seeing that you like Piper (if I recall, #90 ), they have a conference at his church called “Desiring God 2006 National Conference, to be held on September 29th. This time, they’lll be addressing ‘the Supremacy of Christ in a postmodern world.’….and according to John Piper, founder of the Desiring God ministries, speakers for the national conference are ‘eager to speak on behalf of the risen Lord of the universe, Jesus Christ.’ However, one of the speakers is Mark Driscoll (of Mars Hill Church), who is considered to be one of the emerging church leaders…”……& while Driscoll has has distanced himself from certain emergent leaderss/denounced them as herecticalr(McLaren, Jones, etc.), documentation shows Driscoll is promoting contemplative spirituality…….in the words of the site (Lighthouse Trails Research)

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Contemplative spirituality (i.e., New Age mysticism) is the vehicle that the postmodern world is using to reach their objectives. By including a pro-contemplative speaker at this conference will confuse participants at best and dangerously mislead them spiritually at worst. Rather than bringing Mark Driscoll in as a speaker, his spiritual sympathies towards contemplative should be exposed, and people should be warned.

According to the Acts 29 Network (Driscoll’s ministry)recommended reading list of “worthy literature” Mark Driscoll recommends books by Richard Foster, Dallas Willard, and a book called The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius. Other books on the list include those by panentheist St. John of the Cross, and a collection of books about Celtic Spirituality (i.e., contemplative spirituality) as well as books by Thomas Merton, Teresa of Avila, Eugene Peterson, and Larry Crabb (AACC). Act 29’s recommendation of Thomas Merton (who said he was impregnated with Sufism: Islamic mysticism)is perhaps the most telling of all. One of the books Driscoll recommends by Merton is Wisdom of the Desert (referring to the desert fathers). Lighthouse Trails Research has contacted Acts 29 in the recent past and told them about these recommended resources and their dangers. As we stated in our previous article:

For Driscoll to say he has distanced himself from some aspects of the emerging church (or the Emergent leaders) but then advocate Merton and this line up of other avid mystics is an oxymoron.

The point is, Mark Driscoll is promoting contemplative spirituality, and for someone to say they don’t promote the emerging church but then promote contemplative is faulty thinking because the latter is so much worse – it is contemplative spirituality that makes the emerging church so heretical. Remember, the premise of contemplative is that all paths lead to God and God is within all creation.

 

We hope and pray that Mark Driscoll will remove these contemplative recommendations from his website and make a public statement saying that contemplative spirituality is an anti-biblical belief system that he rejects. Otherwise, we pray that John Piper will find someone else to speak at his upcoming conference.

If Driscoll wasn’t removed from the conference, would you still attend? And if John Piper didn’t remove him (as he hasn’t), Is John Piper NOW A FALSE TEACHER TOO?

Moreover, what would you make of his being on stage with Beth Moore at the conferences entitled “PASSION” by Louie Giglio, seeing that she has taken some flack for promoting CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER? Would you still support him?

Or Piper’s appearing with Louie Giglio in support of the Passion Conferences, even though Giglio is apart of North Point Ministries—http://www.northpoint.org/ –and as much of the blessing the church is in many regards, they’re very much supportive of the “Seeker-Friendly” mentality…..and the pastor of the church Andy Stanely has shared the stage with others like Rick Warren, Erwin McManus, Rob Bell and others teaching Herectical and anti-Biblical teachings and
yet never calling anything out?

For evidence, http://www.catalystspace.com/events/past.aspx and http://www.creativepastors.com/product_1219 & http://www.exponentialconference.org/

If difficult, I more than understand….as it’s the same with me and SAM STORMS regarding his mentioning in an interview I heard of folks who’ve most influenced him….with John Piper being at the top of the list due to John’s personal friendship and theological orientation and other old skool folks who were solid like Jonathan Edwards, Calvin, Luther, Owen, the 19th century Princeton theologian, Charles Hodge, 19th century theologian William G. T. Shedd and B. B. Warfield. Others who influenced/blessed him were people like Mike Bickle, Jack Deere, and Wayne Grudem, primarily when it comes to his rejection of cessationism and broader experience of the Holy Spirit (which to a degree I understand since it’s been the same for me)

Or sincerly speaking, what happens when one goes to the Christian Bookstore to get a good solid book by someone teaching sound theology despite all of the bad ones out there as well? Would buying/investing in one mean that I validate everything the store does and that I should boycott it?

Take it a step further, and what are we to do with a myriad of individuals who’ve done much to aid the kingdom but seem to be compromising themselves.

As Lee Strobel said when giving an endorsement for the PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE, “[quote]

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If you only read one book on what life is all about—make it this one! Rick Warren is absolutely brilliant at explaining our real purpose in the world and making the complex understandable. Read this book, then give it to everyone you care about. It is life-changing. Believe me, you’ll never be the same after reading this!” What a gift!”

Lee Strobel, Author, The Case for Christ

That grieved me seeing that, but it made me think of something. If I’m against Purpose-Driven movement and yet I’m supporting someone solid like Strobel who supports Warren, am I not now guilty of supporting Purpose Driven because I now have helped support someone connected to it—even if their book has done much to help believers in their walk? And is Lee Strobel now a false teacher because of his association? Or for that matter, folks like James Dobson for some of his associations despite the great work he does with “Focus on the Family” because many MORMONS buy his books/support him financially? If I’m to be consistent with II John 2:7-10, then that makes me think……or folks like “Way of the Master” with Kirk Cameron, Todd Friel, and Ray Comfort because of their associations with TBN/THOSE hosting it—despite how in-depth and frequently they combat false teachings 24/7 and have served to equipp the Body OF CHRIST IN NUMEROUS WAYS? Same with the late James Kennedy, Charles Stanely, and numerous others
       To anyone who thinks that my stance regarding those who are supportative of Bently is being too “nice”, wanted to throw this out there. , on the issue of being “nice”, need to be clear that’s not what I’m advocating (i.e. “niceness” for it’s own sake—-or that equals to being loving). never thought people should try to be “NICE” on the issue…..”NICE” (”dainty”, “attractive”, and “KIND” (having a sympathetic nature”, “considerate”…….what the Bible advocates) are 2 different things…..

And though the Bible doesn’t advocate “Niceness”, it does promote being “Pleasant” when dealing with issues of correction/dealing with fault:



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Philippians 4:5
Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

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1 Timothy 3:2-4
2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect.
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1 Timothy 6:11
[ Paul’s Charge to Timothy ] But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
1 Timothy 6:10-12 (

Perhaps it’d be beneficial if the orders/terminology for describing Christian behavior we’ve been given in Scripture on how to relate to others are clearly and Biblically defined so that all are on the same page. Granted, as the Word says plainly,

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“Therefore each of you must put off all falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.” (Ephesians 4:25)

For that matter, there’s indeed a TIME and a PLACE for sharp rebuke. But again, I’d maintain what was the OVERALL CHARACTER/TEACHING that Paul was dealing with here in Crete that warranted SHARP REBUKE? Unless that’s clearly identified, using that as a label ineffective. Again, in historical context, there was a specific teaching/group of people that were being dealt with here——and for a good start, Instruction Concerning False Teachers in the Church (Titus 1:10-16), False Teachers) . Also, for that matter,

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Proverbs 12:1
1 Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
But he who hates correction is stupid.

Proverbs 12:15
15 The way of a fool seems right to him,
But a wise man listens to advice.

Proverbs 15:31-33
31 He who listens to a life-giving rebuke
will be at home among the wise.
32 He who ignores discipline despises himself,
but whoever heeds correction gains understanding.
33 The fear of the LORD teaches a man wisdom, [a]
and humility comes before honor.

Proverbs 16:20
20 Whoever gives heed to instruction prospers,
and blessed is he who trusts in the LORD.

Proverbs 25:12
12 Like an earring of gold or an ornament of fine gold
is a wise man’s rebuke to a listening ear.

Proverbs 27:5-6
5 Better is open rebuke
Than hidden love.

6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted,
But an enemy multiplies kisses

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“Be completely humble and gentle; being patient, bearing with one another in love…… (Ephesians 4:2)

No one is ever going to be perfect here on Earth (something seemingly ignored at the moment by many), so we must accept and love other Christians in spite of their faults. Moreover, from what I understand, Concerning faults in fellow believers, we should be HUMBLE (meek…..not self-exalting, smug, rude, proud, condescending, boastful, easily angered ….and everything opposite of what love for Brethren is I Corinthians 13:1-7), patient and gentle with them (John 13:34-35). So, what does it mean to be GENTLE? Or PATIENT? Or LONG-SUFFERING AND HUMBLE?

Or what to make of this?

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James 3

Taming the Tongue
1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

3When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. 4Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

7All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, 8but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt[a] water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water. Two Kinds of Wisdom

13Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16For where you have envy and selfish ambition/self, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

17But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.

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Heavenly Versus Demonic Wisdom

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

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To be clear again, where do you see in the Word where there was a 100% track record of those being of the Lord not having flaws in their own lives or ministries—-OT or NEW? What of Gideon? Samson? Jehosophat? And numerous others—not to mention Peter (who got it right one moment in acknowledging Christ as He was and then the next being called out when Jesus said in Matthew 16
Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”Matthew 16:22-24 (in Context) Matthew 16 —-or the issue with the Judaizers in Galatians 2 where Peter was opposed by Paul? Did that make him SUSPECT to never being of the Lord, sis)
One kat I know of said this to me:
. Please note that false prophets are not only those who prophesy what is not going to happen, but those who prophesy correctly (or even wonder workers, who do real wonders) but then lead the people away from the true and living God. (Deuteronomy 13: 1-5). One of the problems with the false prophets today, within the church, is that they have the right language. This is the nature of a wolf, dressed up as a sheep. He says the right kinds of words, but let’s unpick the meaning. Bro Todd speaks about angels, but what kind of angels; heaven, but what kind of heaven; Jesus, but which Jesus?
Of course we understand that false prophets can deliever true prophecies as well. But for more clarity, See this and let me know what you think….(as it may give more understanding as to where I’;m coming from ( #86 –INCLUDING THE ENTIRE ISSUE WITH DEUTERONOMY 13, plus Deuteronomy 18). Also, regarding wolves, WOLVES PREY ON PEOPLE—-they manipulate, damage, and destroy individuals. That said, it has yet to be made clear how TODD fits the BILL when the fruit of many’s QUITE DIFFERENT from that. Moreover, in line with the characteristcis of what a wolf ULTIMATELYdoes in DENYING/TURNING PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, how has TODD DONE THIS? This has yet to be made clear, and until that happens, the label may not be warranted.

To repeat, there needs to be a distinction between INTENTIONALLY LEADING OTHERS ASTRAY FROM THE GOSPEL/TOWARD ONESELF (as a WOLF DOES) and SIMPLY BEING DECIEVCED/INCOMPLETE IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE. If teaching something false is what makes someone a false teacher, then what of the times when we were teaching something that we genuinely believed to be the truth of God’s Word and were sincerly doing so to please the Lord, but later came to realize that what we were teaching wasn’t really what a paticular text meant? Or that the application of what we were teaching was flawed? Again, WHAT DO WE MAKE OF THIS??

Moreover, Someone once said this to me when it came to the issue of what defines a false teacher/prophet:

I studied those passages, and in every one of them what seemed more apparent than anything else was not the mere inaccuracy of these men….but their CHARACTER BEHIND THE WORDS

In Jeremiah 14:13-16, it’s very clear from the text that these prophets were not in the same category of error as Nathan was. Nathan was not accurate in what he said to David the first time (though he honestly may’ve thought, as brother Link pointed out, that perhaps there was no need to consult God and that the Lord was cool), but his mistake in accuracy was sincere and when checked on it, he later went back to the brother/changed his stance. With those prophets, though, they were BLANTANTLY GOING AGAINST THE LORD.

Like many (though not all, IMHO) of the same “prophets” within the “Prophetic/Apostolic” movement (and I know cause one of my sisters in the Lord is constantly sending me emails from the “Elijah List” ), THESE men were prophesying/saying EXACTLY WHAT THE PEOPLE WANTED TO HEAR. It wasn’t about preaching and teaching what was in line with the standards GOD HAD ALREADY MADE CLEAR but the PEOPLE WERE WILLFULLY IGNORING…..but about what would make everyone happy. Jeremiah was preaching/prophesying according to the WORD OF GOD….and everything he said in the name of the Lord was ALREADY IN LINE WITH THE JUDGEMENTS THE LORD HAD MADE CLEAR repeatedly WOULD HAPPEN TO THE NATION THAT REBELLED AGAINST HIM.

Deuteronomy 28-31, I Kings 8:22-66, I Kings 9, II Chronicles 6:12-42, II Chronicles 7

Same thing happened with the myriad of prophets (i.e. Joel, Issaih, Hosea, etc) who basically–even in indicating what was or what was not of God’s heart/agenda for either the moment or the future—said what was in line with the Character of God He already made clear in His law continually (reading a Chronological Bible really helped me see how many of the prophecies given were actually back to back, so the people had no excuse)

Same with Jeremiah 23, whch seens to indicate very clearly what the signs are of a false prophet. They may appear to speak God’s message but they don’t live according to his principles. They water down God’s message in order to make it more palatable. They encourage their listeners, often subtly, to DISOBEY GOD….and they tend to be arrogant and self serving, appealing to the desires of their audience instead of being true to the Word of God. In my understanding, this is consistent with the standards that God gives for false teachers and prophets in the NT….(II Peter 2), which seemd to focus not soley or even so much on whether or not they said all the right things 24/7 since even false teachers can do that/one can do all of that and still be lost (Matthew 7:21-29, Luke 6:43-49, James 1:29-27), but on the fruit of their ministries….GREED, DISHONESTY, LACK OF HUNGER TO KNOW THE WORD OF GOD, IMMORALITY–ESPECIALLY OF THE SEXUALLY IMMORAL KIND (as often is the case, IMHO, that those who’re seeking the Lord can truly walk in purity), etc…..and seeing that TODD BENTLY has been reported to be speaking against these things numerous times elsewhere and has said things which were equivalents to rebukes Biblical Prophets would’ve given (as well as sponsoring those who do—) that needs to be considered.

Add in Ezekiel 13

The people mocked Jeremiah because he brought nothing but NEWs of God’s judgement….but it was the TRUTH REVEALED IN GOD’S LAW (which none took to heart)

Same thing with Jeremiah 28. Hanniah did more than make a simple mistake in accuracy. God’s people were already in EXILE (with people such as Ezekiel already preaching to them the reason why they’d be….and in the book of II Kings, there were plenty of warnings that the same would happen to them as it did with her sister nation Israel…II Kings 17).

Hanniah came up with a prophecy EVERYBODY LIKED and that wasn’t consistent with what God had already made clear would happen in the Law when people rebelled. He declared God—despite His people not repenting—would soon bring relief to those in Exile in Bablylon from their problems and oppressors. His words were DECIETFUL and brought a false hope and comfort to the people. Jeremiahs predictions, however, were already coming true…….which again, were already in line with previous relevelation from what they had as the Word.

He was a true prophet because he spoke and was sold out to the TRUTH. Hanniah, however, was not….and it was REBELLION TO THE LORD. That’s why God got so hot when the prophets were preaching that the Jews would be able to go home soon when the reality was that God had made clear that they needed to hear what they didn’t want to hear—that they were to be DISCIPLINED/ needed to get unpacked and settle down cause they weren’t going nowhere for a GOOD BIT (70 yrs)—-and the false prophets were inciting a false hope to the people and a way out of recieving justice (Jeremiah 29

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IMHO, honest mistakes/error wasn’t the real issue…….and I’ve seen many people who preached solid truth—HOLINESS, THE UGLINESS OF SIN, THE SERIOUSNESS OF GOD’S WRATH AND THE SALVATION THAT IS FOUND IN CHRIST—and even spoken against false teachings/doctrines not rooted in the word that many have done in the Lord’s name—yet there were PLENTY of areas in which they were off. They’ve called out false prophets/teachers and are seeking to build people up in the faith as Jude makes clear…..and are living mightigly for the Lord, but there are many areas in blantant error.

Many also have given many words prophetically in my life/others that were 100% spot on EVERYTIME. Did they make mistakes? Yes…..and were there times when they thought they heard the Lord on something and spoke it to others but later realized it wasn’t right/repented? Of course……

But the character of the prophet is more important than his charisma—-
Hence, that’s why I asked my earlier question of “How is what’s happening in Florida being contrary to the Basic Message of the GOSPEL?” For others have brought this up to me—-and though there are a myriad of false teachings everywhere, does a false teaching equate with a FALSE GOSPEL?

For those thinking this:
I’m still trying to understand the good things in the movement.
If the testimonies of many who were unbelievers coming to know the Lord and be set free by the Gospel—as well as the numerous testimonies given by others–including Caleb, myself in the ones I shared with my friends being healed/delivered and seeing deliverances of many kinds—physical and spiritual–and various folks, I would think that’d speak for itself. But if not, I’d sincerly question whether or not anyone’s truly desiring to look/understand….
Quote:
<H3>Acts 5:10-17</H3><H5>The Apostles Heal Many
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