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COMMISIONED by CHRIST 4 SHARING HIS LIFE/KEEPING IT REAL ADMIST THE LIES (II Cor. 5:17-21))

“I Think God’s like….” (Part 2): Where do we draw the line regarding analogies showing who God is/representing Him—-“FRESH SPERM”

Posted by Gabriel (G²) on June 23, 2008

Regarding the previous post on the GETTING HIGH Blasphemy (which all can go here to check out, Getting high on Jesus Blasphemy , though  you’ll have to register—FOR FREE– in order to follow the thread completely), I wanted to continue on the issue seeing that it gets really nitty gritty and I think that it’s something that many haven’t really considered. As another said on the “Getting High” issue:
****“Jesus is my D.O.C.”—my “Drug of Choice.” .
I don’t have a problem with this. There are times when there is a euphoria in God’s presence. And what these folks are saying is not to turn to drugs for your joy, turn to Jesus. I don’t find it blasphemous in the least to say that there is pleasure being in jesus that is better than the high the world offers.
And you may really hate this, but that style of teaching is called parabolic or metaphoric and uses a real earthly example to symbolize a spiritual truth.
……that style of teaching is called parabolic or metaphoric and uses a real earthly example to symbolize a spiritual truth.

That said, I’m now reminded of something I remember another preaching on. Regarding the Names of God,

Quote:
Now, we find out, last night we left Abraham on the 17th chapter of–of Genesis, when God appeared to him in the name of El Shaddai. “Shaddai,” some of them pronounce it. I don’t know just exactly the term of it. But I always pronounce it “Shaddai.” And the word, I looked it up and searched it, and I come to find out, that it means, “the breast.” And God appeared to Abraham in the name of “the Breasted One.” Isn’t that a marvelous name to appear to a man a hundred years old now? It’s gone, his strength the blood steam has dried up; his body is practically dead. And Sarah, his wife, her womb was dead. And all this, and then God appears in that name, as the Nourisher, or the Life-giver, the Strength-giver.
“Abraham, I am your strength.”

For better info, http://www.ldolphin.org/nathanstone/index.html (on examining the names of God).

God being labeled as the BREASTED one seems earthly to me on more than one level, especially when considering the rest of the Word on things like Proverbs 5 and delighting in the breasts of your wife. Apart from the usage of drugs, would there be anything wrong with saying “Lord, your love satisfies me more than the breasts of my wife and your love to me is better than all the pleasures sex could give”? Or that serving the Lord is like Sex—–PURE INTIMACY AND ESTACY when in His Prescense and doing His Will. Even for those who read the Song of Solomon, many who take it as a book speaking literalyl about the love relationship between a man/his bride also have taken the symbolism of Christ and His relationship with His Bride/vice versa (which, when coupled with the rest of the Word on the issue of marriage, gets quite real):

Quote:
sPhilippians 3:8
What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ
Philippians 3:7-9 (in Context) Philippians 3

__________________
This may be a bit of a tangent, but seeing that many consider it blasphemous to refer to Jesus as a “high” better than the ones given by drugs and that never ends, I thought it’d be interesting to see how far one would go with those kinds of analogies between eartly things and spiritual. There was actually something regarding how one paticular minister referred the Word of God to the usage of SPERM—-i.e. that the Word was God’s SPERM and that the job of the minister was to bring fresh SPERM to the congregation so that there’d be widespread pregnancies of Truth and the things of God (and for more info, This is a clip http://video.google.com/videoplay?do…arch&plindex=0 )

“THE JOB OF THE PREACHER IS TO BRING FRESH SPERM”……I think that’s what’s everybody’s issue is with Eddie Long. The way Eddie phrased it made it seem a bit crude, like the Preacher was there just to be spreading his seed all over the place…..it’s just that he probably could’ve phrased things different…..
True…..those who minister are charged to “PREACH THE WORD (II Timothy 4:2)…..and marriage was meant to reflect our relationship with him

Seeing that sex is just as much a part of marriage as anything else (from foreplay to orgasm, Song of Solomon 1-8 anyone?), I guess it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to say that presenting the Bible somethin’ that jumpstarts us, just like having intercourse orgasm with one’s spouse is …..After all, the good book what’s begins all understanding of our marriage with Him develops:

 

So, if preachers aren’t bringing good meat from the Bible, then they really are doing what Eddie was talking about….They’re not brining God’s seed that folks need for making stuff…..
Still, mabye it’s possible Eddie could’ve said some things a bit different……

And I have heard some powerful analogies that preachers have used to illustrate the way God relates to us. One dealt with the issue of the sexual relationship/everything from “foreplay” to “climax’ and how that relates to us in our bethrothal to the Lord, using the dynamics of what happens when things go wrong with that regarding couples and comparing that to God (i.e. “If you as a Husband got married, you wouldn’t be satisfied at the level of foreplay foreover…..you’d want to consumate the relationship, otherwise it’d be a false dynamic and relationship—imagine how the Lord felt with Israel when they kept him at bay and refused to submit their entire bodies to Him’

Other ones were “Before you can become pregnant with something, you have to become one with the person….and sometimes, things must be warmed up like foreplay and God wooing you over to love Him and attract you to Him to come into His chambers/delight in His prescence”

By no means do I support/agree with everything Eddie does (or really any of it at all), but He honestly seems to be in the clear with this using the Analogy of God’s Word being like Sperm to impregnate (produce) the things He desires to come forth from us. If people are in uproar concerning his usage of sexual imagery to illustrate a point, I wonder what to make of this:

 

God uses a strong human urge, sex, to describe His relationship with us. Israel is “the Wife” of Jehovah. We, the church, are called “the Bride” of Christ. Most Christians understand that Scripture uses sexual desire to represent the longing and excitement God feels for us, and we should feel for Him, as well as to describe how we “whore” after false religions, worldly “wisdom”, and the idols of this world……

Quote:
James 4:4-5 (Phi) You are like unfaithful wives… never realizing that to be the world’s lover means becoming the enemy of God! Anyone who deliberately chooses to be the world’s friend is thereby making himself God’s enemy. Or do you think what the Scriptures have to say about this is a mere formality?
God Do we recognize how intense the desire is within us to chase after the latest religious fad, to believe comforting lies, to embrace the world? Scripture uses sexual imagery to show how strong our passions are for things like chasing after the latest religious fad, believing comforting lies, and embracing the world. And it uses sexual imagery to show how God is a jealous God; we are His; and He takes a dim view of our “arousal” to fellowship with lies, sophistries, and the world.
Quote:
Ezekiel 16:30 (NIV) “How weak-willed you are, declares the Sovereign Lord, when you do all these things, acting like a brazen prostitute!”
When adultery and prostitution are applied to Israel, Babylon, etc., clearly it is the symbolic / spiritual sense. But because the images are so shocking and descriptive, it may take some effort not to miss the point by getting caught up in the “lurid” aspect of these texts (as seems to be the case with the Sperm analogy and people refusing to let God impregnate them with His Word).

 

Quote:
Ezekiel 23:17-20 “Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.”
Here’s some verses/food for thought:

Jeremiah 3:1-10
Jeremiah 5:1-6
Jeremiah 5:7-13
Jeremiah 7:8-11
Jeremiah 9:2-3
Jeremiah 13:22-27
Ezekiel 23
Ezekiel

Hosea 1:2
Hosea 3:1-3
Hosea 7:11-13
Hosea 4:10-12
Hosea 7:4,
Hosea 6-7
Hosea 2:2-3,
Hosea 5-7
Hosea 2:8-10
Hosea 13
Hosea 2:14-17
Hosea 19-20
Hosea 23

     Others to consider:

There’s already enough skirtting around things regarding SEXUALITY as if it’s taboo when Biblical Stories/Song OF Solomon was just as explicit—

Quote:
Genesis 38:9

 

Quote:
Song of Solomon 2:3
[ Beloved ] Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest is my lover among the young men. I delight to sit in his shade, and his fruit is sweet to my taste.
Quote:
Song of Solomon 4:16
[ Beloved ] Awake, north wind, and come, south wind! Blow on my garden, that its fragrance may spread abroad. Let my lover come into his garden and taste its choice fruits.
Quote:
Song of Solomon 4:11
Your lips drop sweetness as the honeycomb, my bride; milk and honey are under your tongue. The fragrance of your garments is like that of Lebanon.
Quote:
Song of Solomon 7:7-9
7 Your stature is like that of the palm,
and your breasts like clusters of fruit.
8 I said, “I will climb the palm tree;
I will take hold of its fruit.”
May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine,
the fragrance of your breath like apples,
9 and your mouth like the best wine.
Beloved
May the wine go straight to my lover,
flowing gently over lips and teeth. [a]


Let’s add on some more:

Quote:
Proverbs 5:18-2018 May your fountain be blessed,
and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—
may her breasts satisfy you always,
may you ever be captivated by her love.
20 Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress?
Why embrace the bosom of another man’s wife?
Quote:
If Scripture uses the strongest, most graphic language to warn us not to “play the harlot” or to illustrate the dynamics of our relationship with Him, then why was it considered offensive for Eddie to do as He did?

And connecting that back with things like drugs and getting high, where would the difference be? Specifically, the difference between being “HIGH” on a drug and getting estacy from the sexual union of a man/wife and other passages (Genesis 2:24, Psalm 45, Proverbs 5:15-23, I Corinthians 7:1-5, I Corinthians 13:1-8, Ephesians 5:18-33, Colossians 3:18-19, & I Peter 3:1-7/ Hebrews 13:4)?

      Anything ranging from “Jesus is like my daily Bread” to “He’s closer than any lover” or “Your love’s intoxicating,”, “Jesus, ravish me, knock me up/ do it to me again” meaning fill me with more of you and for Him to overtake you as a man does with his bride when she invites him in for sexual relations.

Others like “You need a Holy Ghost enema!!!” (as Benny Hinn’s wife once said on something), “On fire for Jesus”/”Lit Up for Christ”, “Drunk on the Wine of His Love for Me”, or “RIDE OR DIE FOR CHRIST” (as I heard one street preacher say since he grew up in the gangs and that was the phrase they used when they meant buisness or die) and any other ones with earthy language. If one were to go to the Christian Bookstore, you’d probably see alot of em……and It seemed very intriguing to me, seeing that many sound theologians I know of have used some pretty earthy language on things to make very powerful points and I’d like to know where to draw the line, and regarding “Smoking the Ghost” why would one draw the line there on that paticular usage of earthy language. Another I was talking to had this to say on the issue….

Quote:
…..I know I suggested you do this thread but I wasn’t prepared fro its impact – just what do you say to a presentation like this. Long wasn’t wrong in his analogy but in light of our culture it was distaseful…..and having been a victim of abuse my reaction was that of a violation of my personal space. Which I thought was odd bc I didn’t feel that when in popped up on another thread (my issues). But that owuld be another reason to not use these types of analogies…. even some of the people who are great at presenting sexual issues from the pulpit (Ed Young) when you go to his church – you know he’ll be speaking about sex, and in your own church with your own pastor where it is safe is appropriate. But in a public forum like Long has it would come off as a violation to many (especially but not necessarily women). Many people would not realize this….
I use the word c*rap to speak of the nonsense people throw around in their lives. I like to make my point and move on, but when discussing the Lord and the things He did or said, I would never put those words in His mouth. ie: I would never say the Lord said if you have c*rap in your life – give it to Him….

see it’s ugly and misrepesents His demeaner toward us…..

so if anything, drug euphorisms, sperm analogies, or bodily excrements are stretching the way the Lord would represent Himself to the world. Especially, in light of the potential for offense. imo.

 

That said, though I appreciate my sister in the Lord and her thoughts, I still wonder how that’d relate to the analogies throughout scripture on the Lord as our husband and us playing the harlot (which were pretty intense an– .—and illustrative, seeing that they were a symbolic representation of something that already happens in the natural—-like a woman playing the harlot/sleeping around with other men, which goes without saying what’s involved in that practice, ),

On the “cr-*p” being used in reference to God, Actually, you’d be surprised….

On the issue of language/obscenity, I’ve written on it before and was wondering what folks thoughts were on it (regarding Mark Driscoll and how he got into trouble with many regarding what some thought to be “vulgarity” in his dealing with issues and how it seemed inconsistent with the Word’s Admonitions of Speech that’s GODLY):

#154 , #185 , #187 , #188 , #190 , #191, Swearing & Symbolisn: How to define What’s a “CUSS WORD” or innocent “SLANG”????

Quote:
Quote:

Ephesians 5
1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them

For more study info (seeing that others have said elsewhere one cannot tell for certain what is obscene or what the verse means), I thought it’d be beneficial to place up some study info on the issue that may be beneficial as to what the original language means: http://www.preceptaustin.org/ephesians_53-4.htm#5:4

http://preceptaustin.org/romans_14_w…udies.htm#14:1 (seeing that ROMANS 14 is one of the other verses to handle)

On the verse itself, if all were to be honest, that’d probably square away much of the things we consider to be humorous or representive of the Lord as something to re-consider?

I’m still wondering about Ephesians 5:1-4, for if it makes clear that obscenity, foolish talk, or coarse joking isn’t to be among those who are God’s chosen people, then it wouldn’t seem consistent for any of us to act as if there isn’t a “black & white” line to follow.

And if we’re going to call out other issues based in the Word of God, it doesn’t make logical sense for us to be consistent, difficult as that may be.

That is of course unless the definitons for foolish joking and those things listed in the apostolic command need to be defined clearly or mean something different than what we commonly accept.


http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001258.cfm

If we get so frustrated at the Nature of the Lord being MISREPRESENTED in an issue (whether through drug euphorisms, sperm analogies, or bodily excrements)— or in other ways such as pimpery in the pulpit and how many twist Scripture/aren’t faithful to dividing it correctly like II Timothy 2:15–and I’m quick to point out with Scripture….and yet when it comes to media and a verse that seems to give no uncertain terms what is proper for believers and I say “Well, how can it really mean that? That’d mean I have to get rid of ALOT!!!”, that makes me pause to see if I’m hypocritical.

this comes to my mind:

Quote:
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable — if anything is excellent or praiseworthy — think about such things.” (Phil. 4:8).

As much as I like to watch action movies like Terminator/Aliens, do they fit the bill on this verse? Or other T.V shows? That may be extreme but the command seems to require an extreme response. My friend really nailed it/checked me on the issue recently when I was getting excited at this movie/video game due to the amount of action/violence that was in it. In my mind, I wasn’t denying Christ with it. But then he brought up the verse and said “From one brother to another, is what you’re watching in line with lovely, just or what the Word says?”. That makes me think of how often we supply ourselves with things which’re profane as opposed to noble or what’s in line with God’s divine standard of Holiness (Hebrews 12:14, I Peter 1:13-24)…….and on the drug euphorisms, I have to consider that whether or not they help to show the Lord in those ways or are in line with that.

As Joshua Harris said in His book “Sex isn’t the Problem (Lust Is),

 

 

Increasing Our Discernment
R
To discern is to perceive the true nature of something. Because the popular media so often speak to us through our emotions, we must grow in discernment. Otherwise, when violence comes disguised as justice, when lust masquerades as romance, or when greed and selfishness pose as success, we’re likely to be deceived. Here are some biblical ways to help you discern whether a certain activity glorifies God.

  1. Does it present a temptation to sin? (Rom. 13:14, 2 Tim. 2:22)
  2. Is it beneficial? (1 Cor. 6:12a, 1 Cor. 10:23)
  3. Is it enslaving? (1 Cor. 6:12b) (Regarding the preceding two items, please note that when Paul writes in First Corinthians, “All things are lawful for me,” he is not establishing a divine mandate for a free-for-all of entertainment indulgence. He is, instead, quoting a false proverb then common among the Corinthians so that he might refute it.)
  4. Does it honor and glorify God? (1 Cor. 10:31)
  5. Does it promote the good of others? (1 Cor. 10:33)
  6. Does it cause anyone to stumble? (1 Cor. 10:32)
  7. Does it arise from a pure motive? (Jer. 17:9)

I’d also recommend you regularly apply the “Susanna Wesley Test.” While away at college, John Wesley wrote to his mother, Susanna, asking for a list of sins he should avoid. Her response is a model of biblical wisdom applied:

Whatever weakens your reason, whatever impairs the tenderness of your conscience, whatever obscures your sense of God, whatever increases the authority of your body over your mind, whatever takes away from your relish for spiritual things, that to you is sin, no matter how innocent it is in itself.

After it perceives, discernment acts. Winnowing good from evil, it rejects that which is worthless. “Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil” (1 Thess. 5:21-22).

 

 

 

Regarding the thoughts my sister said on the usage of the word “crap” in the Bible and how she’d never say that of the Lord, honestly, would it be that bad to say “If you have crap in your life, give it to the Lord and He’ll handle it”? Provided that there”s an understanding of what “cr-p” means (signifyiing difficulties and things which’re hard to deal with/frustrating) and a basic knowledge of the Lord wants us to cast our cares/burdens on to Him since He cares for us as the Word says. Of course, in bringing this up, she said that  she sees a big difference in using the word c*rap in the same sentence or using the word as a ‘loose quote’ from Jesus.—and  would not want to attribute coarse language to Jesus…..

     Then again, what is coarse language or what qualifies as it? Especially seeing how the Bible is FULL of things that many today would consider coarse (such as many of the Word in Ezekiel regading Israel and what they were like)?\

As another said on Jesus’s sense of humor,

Jesus’ humor could be sharp and earthy at times like when he said, and this is a Westby paraphrase, “the lawyers and Pharisees are full of crap!” Check out the setting in Mark 7/ Mark 7 & Matthew 23 Jesus is speaking openly of the fact of evacuation and that what come out of the body after eating is what is unclean. Unrepentant men are full of spiritually unclean stuff that comes out of them like bowel movements. Jesus taught in figures and parables nearly all the time and approaching them with a prosy literalism misses his sly or wry humor.

Nathanael liked to rib Phillip over his being taken in by Jesus saying, “Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” John 1:45-47 (in Context) John 1 . When Jesus finally meets Nathanael he has a come back for him: “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!” Of course, Jacob was the father of the Israelites and his name meant “full of guile” or “deceiver.” With a touch of sarcasm Jesus is saying, “Well, I declare, we’ve found the first guile-less son of Jacob!”

Picture the setting for Jesus’ quick repartee with the Syro-phoenician woman who interrupted his meal (Mark 7:24-30 & ). He blends ethnic humor and a playful challenge to this gentile kneeling at his feet.

Quote:
Mark 7:26-28 (in Context) Mark 726 The woman was a Greek, a Syro-Phoenician by birth, and she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. 27 But Jesus said to her, “Let the children be filled first, for it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”
28 And she answered and said to Him, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs under the table eat from the children’s crumbs.”

She rolls with his humor (yes, humor can be present amid serious matters), and as we say today, “she flipped it back at him.” Jesus must have smiled as he immediately granted her request.

 

Her response:

perception is everything. I can say something in a sweet tone of voice and it will be received better then a terse tone. Words carry innuendo and tone…. c*rap would be casual to coarse.
I would keep my own conversation about Christ and words attributed to Him as close to the tone I thought best defined His intent….. I wouldn’t be so concerned about my own or your conversation and the way it reflects on the message.
That being primary – the message

I personally could not imagine ‘smokin the Holy Ghost’ – nope nope …hmmm but I can give way to the heart of the person saying it who is not offended…. I just wouldn’t agree. But I’m very charismatic – we laugh and run and praise God with our whole bodies – others think that is not reverent…… to whom it is sin — it is……

And so we’re back to the issue of defining what goes for something that’s a “Disputable Issues” (according to I Corinthians 10, I Corinthians 8, and Romans 14/ Romans 14 ,1 Corinthians 8:1 , 1 Corinthians 10 )

Again, just trying to clarify…..seeing that if the word uses earthy language, then is there anywhere one can really draw the line. Some on the issue of using sex in explaining the things of God have even gone so far to say “How can you describe God in such gross terms!!!! As If God needed sex!!” (and yet when one thinks of how EVERY aspect marriage symbolizes our relationship with Him/the Church, I’d wonder why there’d be issue)…….and that one has to wonder on the validity of where folks say “You cannot refer to the Lord as a force or a drug since He’s a person” if there’s issue with other things that seem valid (i.e. not liking sex analogies, though the Word adresses it, and yet being cool with others)

 

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