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FIGHTING PORN WITH PORN? Questions regarding the ways in which Christians are trying to reach out to those in Sin……

Posted by Gabriel (G²) on January 14, 2008

 This is an article I recently picked up from one of the sites I referred people to earlier. Needless to say, the moment that I saw it, my jaw dropped……..

 

The following information is based on the actions of a ministry that’s aimed at helping those dealing with porn/sexual immorality become set free….it’s entitled “XXX Church”:

(NOTE from GABRIEL: PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE LINK IS VERY EXPLICIT….and I WOULD NOT SUGGEST EVEN STAYING LONG AT THE WEBSITE or even venturing at all if LUST IS A SERIOUS ISSUE FOR YOU…..as it was enough of a battle for me to even investigate the info in order to make certain the facts were straight)…….Just trying to make certain that I am not a serious stumbling block to any of you….

 

In the words of those who were promoting WALLY THE WEINER as a way to get people’s attention (THOUGH BE WARNED, THE LINKS ARE EXPLICIT….AND you may not wish to check them out if you’re easily tempted with things):

Mike and Craig of XXXchurch dreamed up the idea of Wally one afternoon in sunny southern California. XXXchurch exists to bring awareness, openness, accountability and recovery to the church, society and individuals in the issues of pornography and to begin to provide solutions through non-judgmental and creative means. XXXchurch is here to make you think, react and to decide where you stand on the issues of porn. We’re not here to sling mud, but to shove the envelope and try and do some good.

http://www.wallythewiener.com/workingwith.html

Why Wally?

1. We are inundated with sexual imagery everyday. Wally stands as a signpost for parents to take notice. Notice of the overwhelming amount of silence there is in concern to sexual imagery. Wally serves as a loud voice for those who would like to get a clear message out about the devastating effects of porn.

2. Make no excuses. Wally is a dramatic icon for this message. He represents undeniable feelings of passion and offenses. Therefore Wally is the perfect spokesman for the ideas that we should protect him by paying attention to what we are doing, buying, how we are raising our kids and how we are living our own lives. This is a world gone wild with it’s overt sexual imagery. Wally’s message is simply, “protect everything that I am by paying attention to what you are doing.

3. Advertisers are hailed for their genius when it comes to sexual imagery that sells. Sex does sell. Wally and Wally’s image says, “protect the very thing that the geniuses sell to. Make good decisions about what you’re watching, what you’re buying, ultimately what you’re kids are watching and buying.”

4. Yes, he looks like a penis. We picked the one thing that this country can’t seem to live without and yet the one thing they can’t stand. Wally is not the bad guy. Wally is the one thing we have a definitive choice to protect, not only in our lives but the lives of our children. What are we looking at? What are we buying? What are we ignoring in the lives of our children?

5. A penis with a message is a penis that is saying, “keep me protected for what I am and not what sin has made me.”

6. God made us in his image. Sin destroyed and distorted that image. When Adam and Eve fell they hid from God because they were naked. Wally has no shame, guilt or remorse. Fallen man does. We accept the sexual images because we ourselves
are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. Christ has bridged that gap and Wally is along for the creative ride. Salvation cleanses our sin and we see Wally in the light God made him, good. Wally’s message? Free yourself from the sexual images of the world. Free yourself from sin.

7. We readily accept the sexual salesmanship in our society. We can not drive to the grocery store, school, or work without seeing sexual images everywhere. Wally serves as a wake up call to mom and dad. “Hey what are you and you’re kids looking at?”

http://www.wallythewiener.com/aboutwally.html

 

 For more information on what the ministry is about, go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xxxchurch

 Needless to say, I was more than perplexed. It reminded me of a situation where an EX-STRIPPER decided to go back into Strip Clubs and pay for lap dances to the guys and preach the gospel to them…with the support of a Baptist Minister:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/article66041.ece

In the words of the man from A LITTLE LEAVEN who wrote the Critique

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/01/wally-the-weine.html

  

 

  

Wally the Weiner Fights Porn

Imagine showing up to church next sunday and finding a 30 foot high erect phallus on top of your church or in the church parking lot announcing a sermon series on Pornography. “Absurd and ridiculous”, you say. “No Christian Church or Ministry would ever resort to something as shameful as a giant phallus”, you say. Sadly, you’d be wrong (go here to see the link).According to Wally’s Website:

Mike and Craig of XXXchurch dreamed up the idea of Wally one afternoon in sunny southern California. XXXchurch exists to bring awareness, openness, accountability and recovery to the church, society and individuals in the issues of pornography and to begin to provide solutions through non-judgmental and creative means. XXXchurch is here to make you think, react and to decide where you stand on the issues of porn. We’re not here to sling mud, but to shove the envelope and try and do some good.

Call us old fashioned but the church doesn’t need marketing gimmicks in the form of a giant inflatable phallus to fight porn. The church needs to get back to preaching God’s Word and the message of Christ Crucified for Sinners

 

Needless to say, the issue itself had me EXTREMELY PUZZLED…….

 

One of the commentors on the site said this in reply:

Wally is certainly a strong, bold statement, but I don’t have a problem with him.First, the post is a bit misleading – Wally is not placed on the tops of churches to announce a sermon series on pornography. Follow the link in the post – Wally is an icon used to draw attention to the gratuitous sex and partial-nudity used in marketing campaigns across the country. Click around once you follow the link and you’ll see that Wally was at the Super Bowl to challenge the myriad sexual advertisements and images that the year’s largest television audience would be viewing. It has everything to do with reminding people (and parents particularly) to be highly aware of what they and their children are watching – the sin that continues to creep into our daily lives. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.Further, xxxchurch is not a church at all – it’s a ministry focused on combatting the porn and “sex sells” industry in America. They produce free internet monitoring software for your computer to monitor your internet activity and email it to an accountability partner. Again, this ministry is not trying to be a church in any way – it’s an independent ministry that, in my opinion, does a lot of good for a lot of people.

To that, the author of the site had this to say:

Hey Josh,

Christians are not called to combat sin with a 30 foot penis. We are called to Preach Christ Crucified for Sinners. This is not only offensive, it is sinful. Two wrongs do not make a right.

XXXChurch, regardless of their intentions is wrong to employ Wally the Weiner.

 

In league with that, others said this:

XXXChurch has an interesting ministry. Sure porn and lust is a big problem in the nation and in the church. Sometimes it’s hard to diguess, good for these guys for doing it, but I question there way of going about it. It’s one thing to get sin open enough for people to openly repent, it’s another to build a 30 foot penis.

God’s loving kindness is what leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4) and heeding to the Word is what cleanses a young man psalm (119:10). Maybe they need to show more of God’s

If we’re going to fight sexual advertising with more sexual advertising, let’s please have the sense to use the sex which actually advertises. Frankly, a nude porn star can do a much better job of ‘reminding’ parents to be highly aware of what their children are watching than a giant penis. Oh…wait. Does that clarify things?

Impurity is about as capable of promoting purity as gasoline is capable of putting out a fire.

 

I actively used to work with these guys in there ministries as a prayer partner until I learned they where in bed with Rob Bell no pun intended and a lot of there advice on getting over Pornography is the same 12stepbilge you get fed at SA or other such groups that and it was way too much about self-promotion that and when they would go to Adult Entertainment Expo or what have you there was no real Gospel message just hand out bibles and getting people to sign week long abstinence pledges. SO the whole XXX Church thing I feel is a bust. you would be better off getting help from your Pastor, The Bible and Prayer then giving time or money to these modern day Elmer Gantrys

 

 

 

That all aside, before procedding, here are a couple of articles on the subject that I researched and that may be of benefit regarding the issue:

http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/1250/Ken_Silva

 http://albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=702

 http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001313.cfm

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2116990&page=1&WNT=true

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/mission_accompl.html

 

these are my personal thoughts on the issue. I am male…..a 21 yr old male….a 21yr old male with STRONG hormones, a HIGH SEX DRIVE, and an understanding that if If I expose myself to any paticular sexual imagery I’ll go into overdrive. That is why I personally try to distance myself from anything (movies, media, ect) that’d be like “triggers” to set me in motion.

Now, If I was struggling with PORNAGRAPHY/MASTURBATION (some of which used to be heavy battles and have gotten MUCH better but I still have to be on guard 24/7), then driving down the road and seeing a giantic version of a man’s PRIVATES would do nothing more but get my mind going to FILL IN THE BLANKS…OR BRING UP OTHER IMAGES FROM HORRIBLE THINGS WHICH I’VE SEEN PREVIOUSLY and mess me up even further……….and perhaps it’s just me, but I don’t think I’m the only one of my kind who has the issue.

 

If anyone has not caught it yet, remember the things that God used to condemn his people HEAVILY for not removing in the Books of I-II Kings & Chronicles entiled “ASHERAH POLES”?

 

 

  1. Exodus 34:13
    Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles.
    Exodus 34:12-14 (in Context) Exodus 34 (Whole Chapter)

  1. Deuteronomy 7:5
    This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire.
    Deuteronomy 7:4-6 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)

  1. Deuteronomy 12:3
    Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places.
    Deuteronomy 12:2-4 (in Context) Deuteronomy 12 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 1 Kings 14:15
    And the LORD will strike Israel, so that it will be like a reed swaying in the water. He will uproot Israel from this good land that he gave to their forefathers and scatter them beyond the River, because they provoked the LORD to anger by making Asherah poles.
    1 Kings 14:14-16 (in Context) 1 Kings 14 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 1 Kings 14:23
    They also set up for themselves high places, sacred stones and Asherah poles on every high hill and under every spreading tree.
    1 Kings 14:22-24 (in Context) 1 Kings 14 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Kings 17:10
    They set up sacred stones and Asherah poles on every high hill and under every spreading tree.
    2 Kings 17:9-11 (in Context) 2 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Kings 18:4
    He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (It was called Nehushtan. )
    2 Kings 18:3-5 (in Context) 2 Kings 18 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Kings 23:14
    Josiah smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles and covered the sites with human bones.
    2 Kings 23:13-15 (in Context) 2 Kings 23 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 14:3
    He removed the foreign altars and the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles.
    2 Chronicles 14:2-4 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 14 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 17:6
    His heart was devoted to the ways of the LORD; furthermore, he removed the high places and the Asherah poles from Judah.
    2 Chronicles 17:5-7 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 17 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 19:3
    There is, however, some good in you, for you have rid the land of the Asherah poles and have set your heart on seeking God.”
    2 Chronicles 19:2-4 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 19 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 24:18
    They abandoned the temple of the LORD, the God of their fathers, and worshiped Asherah poles and idols. Because of their guilt, God’s anger came upon Judah and Jerusalem.
    2 Chronicles 24:17-19 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 24 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 31:1
    When all this had ended, the Israelites who were there went out to the towns of Judah, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. They destroyed the high places and the altars throughout Judah and Benjamin and in Ephraim and Manasseh. After they had destroyed all of them, the Israelites returned to their own towns and to their own property.
    2 Chronicles 31:1-3 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 31 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 33:3
    He rebuilt the high places his father Hezekiah had demolished; he also erected altars to the Baals and made Asherah poles. He bowed down to all the starry hosts and worshiped them.
    2 Chronicles 33:2-4 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 33 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 33:19
    His prayer and how God was moved by his entreaty, as well as all his sins and unfaithfulness, and the sites where he built high places and set up Asherah poles and idols before he humbled himself—all are written in the records of the seers.
    2 Chronicles 33:18-20 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 33 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 34:3
    In the eighth year of his reign, while he was still young, he began to seek the God of his father David. In his twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem of high places, Asherah poles, carved idols and cast images.
    2 Chronicles 34:2-4 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 34 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 34:4
    Under his direction the altars of the Baals were torn down; he cut to pieces the incense altars that were above them, and smashed the Asherah poles, the idols and the images. These he broke to pieces and scattered over the graves of those who had sacrificed to them.
    2 Chronicles 34:3-5 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 34 (Whole Chapter)

  1. 2 Chronicles 34:7
    he tore down the altars and the Asherah poles and crushed the idols to powder and cut to pieces all the incense altars throughout Israel. Then he went back to Jerusalem.
    2 Chronicles 34:6-8 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 34 (Whole Chapter)

  1. Isaiah 17:8
    They will not look to the altars, the work of their hands, and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles and the incense altars their fingers have made.
    Isaiah 17:7-9 (in Context) Isaiah 17 (Whole Chapter)

  1. Isaiah 27:9
    By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for, and this will be the full fruitage of the removal of his sin: When he makes all the altar stones to be like chalk stones crushed to pieces, no Asherah poles or incense altars will be left standing.
    Isaiah 27:8-10 (in Context) Isaiah 27 (Whole Chapter)

  1. Jeremiah 17:2
    Even their children remember their altars and Asherah poles beside the spreading trees and on the high hills.
    Jeremiah 17:1-3 (in Context) Jeremiah 17 (Whole Chapter)

  1. Micah 5:14
    I will uproot from among you your Asherah poles and demolish your cities.

 

 

 

 

Those, in my study/understanding, were symbols of a male’s PRIVATES….Asherah was a Cannanite mother goddess of the sea associated with BAAL….who was the most worshipped of gods of Cannan. Baal symbolized strength and fertility and was considered the god of agriculture.  ASHERAH was the CONSORT of BAAL), and there was much sexual worship.prostitution going on around it. She was worshipped by means of wooden pillars (here called “poles”) For more info, go here:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah_pole

http://www.topical-bible-studies.org/37-0036.htm

 

 

http://net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Groves

Another name for it would be an obselik (or the very thing which is in our own backyard at Washington, D.C, which looks like a very long tower).
Now, that being the case, is it not ironic that people are trying to use the same symbol to RALLY people for a cause?

Why would you even mention things that the Word of God said back in the day were used as a symbol to promotoe people toward sin…….

 There was even someone who came out in defense of it and mentioned that showing Wally was no more different than showing an elbow or knee and that certain body part are nothing to be ashamed about.

However, if that be the case, then why would you (especially for those of you who are married) have a problem with showing your wife goodies all over the street? Or going on ahead and showing your stuff in PUBLIC?

Of course you wouldn’t……and rightfully so, seeing that those parts of the body are meant to be SACRED AND NOT FOR COMMON PUBLIC VIEWING:

 1 Corinthians 12:23-25

23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.

 Proverbs 5

15 Drink water from your own cistern,
       running water from your own well.

 16 Should your springs overflow in the streets,
       your streams of water in the public squares?

 17 Let them be yours alone,
       never to be shared with strangers.

 18 May your fountain be blessed,
       and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.

 19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—
       may her breasts satisfy you always,
       may you ever be captivated by her love.

 20 Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress?
       Why embrace the bosom of another man’s wife?

 21 For a man’s ways are in full view of the LORD,
       and he examines all his paths.

 22 The evil deeds of a wicked man ensnare him;
       the cords of his sin hold him fast.

 23 He will die for lack of discipline,
       led astray by his own great folly.

       

 

 http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-nudist.html

 

 

 To me, the entire issue is one of simple DISCERNMENT. WHat often happens in many ministries is that a method will be used and then often justified because of two things:

1. It was done with right intentions

2.) Some people actually came to Christ because of it.

 

    That’s often why when many ministries recievce criticism on certain issues they get defensive…….because in their eyes, “We were not intending anyone to get hurt….and some people are being helped by it” (which is a symptom of something called “PRAGMATISM”, or basically having a “WHATEVER WORKS” mentality or living by the idea that “THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS”……)

 

 

Good Articles to check out on the issue are these……

 http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue30.pdf

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue31.pdf

http://www.stevekmccoy.com/reformissionary/2006/06/jesus_loves_por.html

 

 

  Now, many youth groups have done the same thing in various ways with noble intentions, such as discussing the evils of an issue and showing a media clip on the subject (i.e. trying to show how adultrey is wrong and showing a clip where people are sleeping together takes place…..and later preaching against it). Nevertheless, though, would you submit pornography to children in order to teach them that it’s wrong? Or expose them to a Brothel in order to REALISTICALLY show them its dangers? Of course not…..but that’s the FULL LOGICAL extent of the reasoning used by XXX Church……..    The issue isn’t avoidance of any REAL portrayal of sin or social issues—the Bible is full of stories about the sinfulness of humanity. But there is a right and wrong way for sin to be portrayed.

   As  Joshua Harris said in “Not Even a Hint”, “A portrayal of sin should never prompt the reader/viewer only to want more of the same. Today many images of sin that should produce REPULSION instead produce attraction.”     There’s a BIG difference between reading in Scripture about David’s adulterous affair with Bathsheba, which is condemned as wickedness, and watching an adulterous affair or lewd content in a film that’s celebrated, making it appear GOOD.
    Likewise, when the media’s promoting an evil message (i.e. presenting sin in a attractive way, and celebrating sins like lying, stealing, murder, sexual immorality etc), or using an evil method to make a point (ex. Jakes “Woman Thou Art Loosed”, where the story makes the point of sexual abuse being bad while having the performers behave shamelessly, n’ making viewers wallow through HEAVY graphic sexuality/temptation), then it’s WORLDLY….

For some excellent resources on the issue, consider these:

http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001258.cfm

http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001277.cfmAnd avoidance is QUITE necessary…..

      As another wisely said on the subject,  “The Christian community must do a better job of showing people how to ask the questions that make a person media literate. If we are indeed the “royal priesthood” that we are described as, then our job description includes the command of Ezekiel 44:23, “They are to teach my people the difference between the holy and the common and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean.”We must live not as passive sponges but as mindful agents. As Bill Romanowski (author and Calvin College professor) says, “There’s some good stuff out there and lots of bad stuff and, if people are going to live as mature Christians, they’re going to have to learn to tell the difference.”

Also, there is the basic principle of discussing a paticular aspect happening in the culture and comparing that to what the Word of God says.

   However, THERE IS A LIMIT THAT MUST BE MAINTAINED…..
Can you imagine if I wanted to teach my youth group about the dangers of “sexual immorality” & did a remake on stage of the video by Missy Elliot “LET ME WORK IT” or R. Kelly’s “I don’t see NOTHING WRONG WITH A LITTLE BUMP & GRIND”? (LOL, LOL)

    If one wished to talk about the evils of something, it probably would’ve been best if he discussed the philosophy of  without having a REMAKE OF IT or put it in such a way that may tempt others to sin……

A pracitical example would be discussing some lyrics by Tupac (EDITED of course, Ephesians 5:3-7,)and showing where what he said was of merit (lest we’re not on the same page that every culture/religion has an aspect of Truth in it), what was off and directing people toward the larger picture of CHRIST/HIS WORDS. The same could be applied to movies, where one could use things such as “CLEAR PLAY” to edit movies so one could watch without being exposed to things compromising their purity…..or using things such as “MOVIE NIGHTS” from “Focus on the Family”, where the movie summaries are placed up, with comparisions/contrasts to Scripture & discussion as to how it relates to one’s life.

http://search.focusonthefamily.com/search?q=movie+nights&site=family_org&entqr=0&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&client=focusonthefamily_com&ud=1&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&filter=0&proxystylesheet=focusonthefamily_com

     IMHO, That’d be similar to what Paul did, where he engaged the culture by becoming willingly  exposed to differing philosophies, finding common ground by emphasizing where the unsaved agreed  about God or what was actually truthful, & then moving his message toward the person of Christ ( Acts 17:16-33. )
      Though there has been much mess by people going to the extreme in trying to connect with the culture, I’ve witnessed many youthgroups that’ve approached the situation with a balanced mentality & have had EXCELLENT RESULTS.
 
    It simply a matter of trying to do as Paul and connect with the culture…..but again, IT MUST BE A LIMIT AND THE LIMIT IS ONLY  as far as consciense/scriptural examples allows (I Corinthians 9:19-27)…

1 Corinthians 9:19-27

 19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.  24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

 

 Prayerfully, what I’m saying does not come off as if I am DEFENDING THE ACTIONS OF XXX CHURCH IN ANY WAY!

 

Again, I’ve looked into resources like XXX Church before….and honestly, though many good things have come from it, I think there are some SERIOUS issues that need to be considered.

 

 The same thing goes for other resources such as “EVERY MAN’S BATTLE”, which I read during my highschool years and thought favorably for awhile due to it being “real” and giving practical advice……but now I tend to avoid it due to how the book was often so GRAPHIC IN THE details that it ended up taking my  mind through the gutter even when I was reading…….and moreover, the advice was often focused on EXTERNALITIES (i.e. don’t go here, don’t do this, etc), which was good…….but without the POWER OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST AND THE REALITY THAT IT IS A HEART CHANGE ONE NEEDS ABOVE ALL ELSE, everything else is merely a matter of EXTERBAL CHANGE…

 Regarding the verbiage that is often used by XXX Church ministries, here are some words by another that I believe said it best:

Speaking of the ubiquity of pornography in our culture, last week ABC News’ Nightline highlighted the work of XXXChurch, a ministry aimed at evangelizing porn stars and pornographers, as well as addressing the spiritual problems associated with consuming pornography. Check out the story, “The Porn Pastors: XXXChurch.com.”

JR Mahon of the ministry says in the piece, “Our biggest critics are Christians.” Sadly this comes as no surprise. When XXXChurch came up with the idea of a New Testament with a cover emblazoned, “Jesus Loves Porn Stars,” resistance from the evangelical community was quick and strong. The American Bible Society refused to publish it.

Al Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said at the time that “I think these guys have crossed a line that I would not cross and I would not commit.”

“I just have to wonder what people think when they see that cover,” Mohler said. “In other words, are they expecting the Bible or are they expecting something else?”

Similar furor has erupted over an Australian Baptist church’s display of a sign that read, “Jesus Loves Osama.” Melinda at the Stand to Reason Blog calls such mottoes “bumper sticker Christianity” that is “just so unhelpful.”

The defense in both cases is that the verbiage is that it is simply an attempt to communicate the gospel message in a challenging and thought-provoking way; that we are called to evangelize everyone in the Great Commission and that we are to love our enemies.

There are two errors that are often committed in these areas. The conservative error is to reject both the sinner and the sin in the interests of purity and holiness. The liberal error is to minimize or even celebrate the evil of the sin as good in the interests of acceptance, tolerance, and “love.”

Augustine helps us to avoid both errors. If we are at pains to legislate against certain types of behavior but are not undertaking evangelistic efforts to convert those who need it most, we engage in Pharisaic legalism. If we do nothing to rebuke sin, we engage in licentious antinomianism.

Here are some thoughts from Augustine, that could arguably be pretty well summarized in the bumper sticker slogan, “Love the sinner, hate the sin” (clearly in light of the second quote the word “sinner” would need to be properly parsed):

“That is, he should not hate the man because of the fault, nor should he love the fault because of the man; rather, he should hate the fault but love the man. And when the fault has been healed there will remain only what he ought to love, and nothing that he ought to hate” (City of God, 14.6).

“No sinner, precisely as sinner, is to be loved; and every human being, precisely as human, is to be loved on God’s account, God though on his own. And if God is to be loved more than any human being, we all ought to love God more than ourselves” (De Doctrina Christiana, 1.27.28).

http://blog.acton.org/archives/1479-Love-the-Sinner,-Hate-the-Sin.html

imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

 

 

Ephesians 5:1-51Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them. 8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
   “Wake up, O sleeper,
      rise from the dead,
   and Christ will shine on you.” 15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,
Quote:
James 3:9-12“With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.”

Now, perhaps I’m wrong, but I’ve always been under the mentality that anything I say should be able to help GLORIFY the Lord and that it should also serve as a way of bringing people closer to the Lord……and if my language is not doing that, then whatever I say is of no consequence.

Even in light of what many may say regarding the actions of XXX Church and how it’s important for churches to use the same buzz words/labels the world does and that it’s appropiate for the Christian in order to “relate” to those around us, I’m constantly reminded of what the Word says regarding the distinction that is to be made between those living for the Lord and others who are not and how we’re not to be COMPLETELY THE SAME IN OUR LANGUAGE/WAYS, especially in the case of language where certain words may have certain connonations regardless of the culture or the context:

Quote:
1 Peter 1:16-1816for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”[a]17Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,
Quote:
1 Peter 2:7-127Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone,[a]”[b] 8and,
“A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”[c] They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.9But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.11Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. 12Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

And even though I may seem a bit extreme, I rather lean on the side of being overtly-cautious than being seemingly too lax and causing someone to sin, love worldliness moreso than holiness, and having that person fall into something against Scripture:

Quote:
Mark 9:41-43 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Causing to Sin 42″And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.[a]
Quote:
Matthew 18:5-9 5″And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.7″Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

There are many ministries which, IMHO, have done a MUCH MORE EXTENSIVE/BETTER JOB at helping those struggling with Pornagraphy become set free than those involved with XXX Church (which has done much COMPROMISE/BLENDING THE LINES in the PROCESS of trying to help those they’re aiming for).

 

Examples of these would be ministries such as tthese:

http://www.purelifeministries.org/

https://emissary7.wordpress.com/2007/12/25/church-people-on-broadway-celebrity-christianity-verses-real-christianity-by-steve-gallagher/

 

Also, consider Joshua Harris’s book “SEX ISN’T THE PROBLEM (LUST IS)”:

http://64.13.216.130/sex_is_not_the_problem_lust_is.php

Also, consider a ministry from “FOCUS ON THE FAMILY” entitled “PURE INTIMACY:

http://www.pureintimacy.org/

 

       All of the following ministries have done SUBSTANTIAL HELP in aiding those dealing with perversion without having to go the route of BLENDING IN LIKE THE WORLD IN ORDER TO APPEAL TO THE WORLD (i.e. in XXX Church’s own words, “We’re the number one CHRISTIAN PORN website”, etc)

 

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12 Responses to “FIGHTING PORN WITH PORN? Questions regarding the ways in which Christians are trying to reach out to those in Sin……”

  1. zspencer said

    I would like to add Covenant Eyes as another excellent resource in this vein. Admittedly, I work there ;).

    But we’re gearing up and providing resources for people who struggle with pornography in a manner which will not cause them to relapse. An example would be Jim Roses excellent Building Integrity in Relationships videos.

    Of course, full disclosure, I do work with Covenant Eyes, so I’m admittedly biased :).

  2. Godbless Brother Spencer!!

    Thanks ever so much for visiting the site…and especially for the link reference. Checked out the site and I now admit that I’ve become biased toward it as well!!! MARVELOUS RESOURCE!!!!

    Again, thank you ever so much…for anything that’ll enable people to be more effective in GUARDING THEIR HEARTS–the WELLSPRING OF THEIR LIVES—-and monitering WHAT CAPTIVATES THEM (and thus what they’ll end up finding time to invest in) is invaluable (Proverbs 4:23)

    Love to see more of you around sometime….

  3. outofsin said

    I have questioned triple x church for some time, and truthfully I have been cautious about exploring their material in detail. I have listened to several of their podcasts, only after reading the publication notes to get a feel for the material being presented.
    I think you have some very valid points and I think there are some questionable objectives behind many of their tactics. I feel one is justified in being cautious about exploring their ministry and resources in depth.

  4. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

    And glad to know that I’m not the only one who feels that way. Do you like the Blog?

  5. joyfulfreedom1 said

    Yeah, I applaud your efforts brother. And they don’t just cross the line, they destroyed it. My big problem is that many skeptics will continue to use this sort of things as ammo.

    I’ve been married for 15 years, and intimate with one woman in the context of a marriage. I’ve abstained for a 3 year period prior to marriage. I’ve trained my mind and body to become accustomed to intimacy with my wife alone.

    There is still a struggle to pure, and having said that:

    The whole XXX church thing is debauchery. Can’t say what the true motive is, in their thinking and actions, but let’s be for real regardless of your theological background, let’s say that the church of 500, gains 50-60 former pornstars or producers, you don’t expect any of them to have a moment of relapse?

    There would be chaos in that place. Don’t know what they were thinking.

    Thanks for such an exhaustive, post, use of scripture, and a myriad of links.

    I’ll say it if no else will, I think XXX is going to bust hell wide-open lest they repent.

  6. It’s one of those things, I guess, where the emphasis has been so much on intent (i.e. “Hey, they have good intentions and want to please the Lord”) that people have forgotten the issue of CONTENT and beyond that, the EXTENT of CONSEQUENCE.

    But then again, some don’t say it’s sin (and that’s a thread for another day)

  7. michael said

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the XXX church is Ron Jeremeys creation and He financed it…like big tobacco has anti smoking campaigns…
    even the 700 club is in on this supporting XXXchurch
    I rebuked Pat Roberson for supporting this evil…! he is wicked!

    on 700 club..

    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=6873303

    http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/01/wally-the-weine.html

    Imagine showing up to church next sunday and finding a 30 foot high erect phallus on top of your church or in the church parking lot announcing a sermon series on Pornography. “Absurd and ridiculous”, you say. “No Christian Church or Ministry would ever resort to something as shameful as a giant phallus”, you say. Sadly, you’d be wrong. (Warning: Explicit Link)
    According to Wally’s Website:
    Mike and Craig of XXXchurch dreamed up the idea of Wally one afternoon in sunny southern California. XXXchurch exists to bring awareness, openness, accountability and recovery to the church, society and individuals in the issues of pornography and to begin to provide solutions through non-judgmental and creative means.

    also
    the “way of the master” is against XXX church’s dragging the church down and making it look bad, there is a blog on the way of the master,, radio where they say XXX church is real wrong..they show a video of XXXchurch’s porn puppet and a porn producer Ron Jeremy telling children at a grocery store porn is not for children but is for adults,,, this is abomination check it out..

    http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1389981839&channel=1185329932

  8. Nabas said

    hmmm… I can’t say anything it’s all a matter of chance. You’ve got two options, whether to overcome or to be defeated. Please heed to what you’re looking at. You’ve got the bible and the Church that doesn’t show porn.

    Keep yourselves pure.

    God bless

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