EMISSARY^7 (G²)

COMMISIONED by CHRIST 4 SHARING HIS LIFE/KEEPING IT REAL ADMIST THE LIES (II Cor. 5:17-21))

COMMON GROUND: For those against WOF, are there any BIBLICAL THINGS WORTH APPRAISING??

Posted by Gabriel (G²) on January 14, 2008

Basically, I am writing this thread in response to an alarming trend I’ve seen with those who desire to correct errror when it is noticeable.

Regarding WOF, I was curious as to whether or not anyone against the Movement would be up for the task of pointing out, bit by bit, where WOF has IT RIGHT? I ask that because I noticed that the majority of the time is spent by many on this forum trying to point out where WOF may be wrong, and I used to have this same mentality in earlier years, where I thought I was truly wise/on point because I was always quick to point out ERROR whereever I could find it.

But as someone else once STATED WHEN THEY WISELY REBUKED me on the issue, ANY IDIOT CAN RECOGNIZE THE NEGATIVE…..AND IT DOESN’T TAKE MUCH EFFORT/TOO LONG TO FIND SOMETHING NEGATIVE IF ONE IS TRULY LOOKING FOR IT.

By no means am I saying that CORRECT DOCTRINE IS UNIMPORTAN oR INTNED to give the impression that ALWAYS BEING POSITIVE/AVOIDING ADRESSING ERROR IS the solution (which would of course be the EXTREME to always being negative). For as the Word says,

1 Timothy 1:3-5

 

Warning Against False Teachers of the Law
 3As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God’s work—which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

 

Quote:

1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Also, as John Piper once wisely stated,

Quote:

Quote:

Truth-Based Division for the Sake of Truth-Based Unityhttp://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceL…rom_the_Truth/
For the sake of unity—that is, truth-based unity—Paul calls for truth-based division. Avoid them. I don’t know how Paul could make any clearer how he relates doctrine and unity.For Paul, doctrine is the basis of unity. Without the common doctrine they had been taught, the unity would not have been Christian unity. So he is willing to call for truth-based disunity (“Avoid them.” “Divide from them.”) for the sake of truth-based unity.

In other words, when a person departs from the doctrine that the apostles had taught, Paul sees this as a greater threat to unity than the disunity caused by avoiding such people. If we say: How can that be? How can dividing from a false teacher who rises up in the church promote unity in the church? The answer is that the only unity that counts for unity in the church is rooted in a common apostolic teaching. Isolating false teachers—avoiding them—is Paul’s strategy for preserving unity that is based on true teaching.

However, as Piper also wisley stated,

Quote:

Joy in the Truth Is DominantNow let’s pause here before looking at the reasons for these commands in verse 18. I want to make a clarifying comment about both of these commands and the doctrine that connects them.First, with regard to the command to “watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught,” it is possible to go overboard on this. I hesitate even to say it, since I don’t think this is the temptation of most churches or most Christians today. But it is possible, and there are churches and people that do go overboard.

What I mean is that they become so obsessed with spotting doctrinal error that they lose their ability to rejoice in doctrinal truth. They’re like dogs that are trained so completely to sniff out drugs at the airport, that even when they’re off duty they greet everybody that way. It doesn’t make for a very welcoming atmosphere.

The book of Romans does not make this mistake. Periodically Paul warns against doctrinal or ethical error. But most of Romans is a glorious display of the work of Christ for us and in us. So let’s ask the Lord to help us get the balance right here. We must do this: “Watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught.” But this is not the main thing we do. Vigilance over error is necessary, but joy in the truth is dominant.

There Is a Defined Body of Doctrine

Second, with regard to the doctrine, don’t miss the obvious: There is such a thing—a body of doctrine that someone can go against. Verse 17: “Watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught.” There is a doctrinal standard. There is something you can depart from. Paul refers to it in several ways. In Romans 6:17, he calls it the standard of teaching: “[You] have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed.” In 2 Timothy 1:13-14, he calls it the pattern of sound words and the good deposit. “Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you.” In Acts 20:27, he calls it the whole counsel of God. “I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.”

So there is a body or standard or pattern of sound doctrine. The caution here, of course, is that we must not put every minor opinion about hundreds of Bible verses in this category so that there is no room for any disagreement at all (cf. Philippians 3:15).

The pattern of sound doctrine would be a faithful summary of biblical essentials determined by how crucial they are in expressing and preserving the history of redemption, the nature and condition of man, the nature and work of Christ, the nature and word of the Holy Spirit, and the nature and work of God the Father. One of the greatest challenges in the quest for unity is deciding what belongs in this body of doctrine when Paul says, if someone departs from it, avoid him. That’s part of what the elders were working on last year in the baptism question. And which we are still working on.

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceL…rom_the_Truth/

So, with that alll said, is there anyone here on this forum who may be against WOF but would be willing to look for anything that is inherent in the movement that is actually BIBLICAL/ESSENTIAL TO THE FAITH? Or would anyone be willing to point out either where we can give room for dissaggrement and where we can agree?

And is there truth within the WOF movement that we can rejoice in TOGETHER?

Hopefully, someone will be interested, for who knows if better relations can happen between those who disagree and we can all come closer to being BIBLICALLY ACCURATE WHEN IT COMES TO THE TUTH OF GOD’S WORD…..

__________________

For anyone interested,I wanted to pass along this invaluable website that has helped me GREATLY on the issue of CORRECTLY/BIBLICALLY dealing with CULTS/HERESY.

It’s entitled A Biblical Guide To Orthodoxy And Heresy (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/d01.html & http://www.apologeticsindex.org/d01a.html ), and for anyone willing to wade through/study the information in it’s ENTIRETY, I think that it would be of great benefit to those who may have friends/family involved within Herectical Movements and who are looking for solid ways to help them out.

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue94.htmIf anyone’s interested, you can go to the link in the above for a EXCELLENT article on what Christians practicing Discernment should look like. It’s entitled, ” Discernment in an Age of Deception
Defining the Believer’s Biblical Call to Judge”

Also, if interested, here’s another article, entitled ” Bereans and Traditions” (http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue62.htm), which had many insightful things pertaning to the discussion. It’s deals with what it means to have a Berean Attitude—-studying everything we hear and seeing whether it lines up with the Word of God, whether it comes from a camp we’re from/consider ORTHODOX or from the one that’s not.

Again, I really learned alot from what the individual writing this said (many of which I base my views off of)…..and whether people agree or disagree, the information was at least thought-provoking (to me, at least). Hopefully, perhaps someone else will feel the same

Also, if interested, here’s some interesting information that I found on Word of Faith and that may aid in this discussion, specifically in understanding WOF and what the movement stands for, as well as CORRECT BIBLICAL Interpretations on many of the teachings taught in WOF……and, as requested, a list of all those who might be considered “TOXIC WOF” (though by no means is the list conclusive).

Here it is:

Quote:
http://www.isitso.org/guide/wordfaith.html

The Word Faith movement
The Claims

The Word Faith movement is a branch of the general Charismatic movement. Not all Charismatics accept Word Faith. But Word Faith Charismatic teachers have, in the past decade, become the most publicly prominent representatives of the Charismatic movement. teachings. But Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), the most powerful and pervasive of the televangelistic outreaches in American religion, features and promotes Word Faith teachers almost exclusively.

Teachers in the Word Faith movement (sometimes called “Word of Faith” movement) claim that the Bible promises perfect health and unlimited prosperity to all believers. Therefore if any believers are sick or in poverty, it must be because they do not understand how to “appropriate” these promises for themselves. According to Word Faith teachers, the way to appropriate that health and wealth is through the “power of the tongue” to “confess” the believer’s faith in what he determines to be the Biblical promises of God. This creates, according to the teachings of many in this movement, a “legally binding” requirement for God to act. And thus, in their perspective, God Himself is controlled by the power of the human tongue when it speaks “the word of faith.” Just as God created the world and all in it by “His Word,” human believers are assumed to be granted the same kind of creative power in their words.

Such teachers warn their students to never pray prayers of petition to God with the conclusion “If it be Your will, Father.” For that would indicate you haven’t studied your Bible well enough to know all of His promises. If you know the promises, they insist, you know His will at any moment, and need only speak that word. Anything less is evidence you lack faith in His promises. They also insist that their students should never “pray the problem,” but rather “pray the solution”. Speaking to God about your problems is tantamount, in their eyes, to not believing that God will take care of your problem immediately if you will only “pray the solution” exactly as you find it in the Bible.

The Allure

The prosperity teachings of the Word Faith movement are particularly popular with those who feel disenfranchised from the system of prosperity which many in the Western world enjoy. The solutions proposed by Word Faith teachers for a low standard of living do not include either hard work or education. The solutions proposed are a series of verbal affirmations, called “positive confessions,” and a process usually described as “reaping and sowing” in which believers are encouraged to give money—”planting a seed”—into a particular ministry in the hopes of God miraculously granting them a “harvest” from that monetary seed. Many Word Faith teachers even use a gimmick which they call the “hundred-fold blessing” to induce larger offerings from their audiences. They will declare that God has revealed to them that there is a special window of opportunity for an unusual blessing for those who will respond to the immediate request for donations—He will give back to any who donate a certain amount a “hundred-fold return” on their donation. This can particularly appeal to the person who is despondent over his finances—if he can only scrape together a sacrificial offering, he can hope for a huge return on it.

The health teachings of the Word Faith movement are particularly popular with those who have physical problems for which medical help has been ineffective. The solution proposed for ill health does not include improved diet and exercise, or anything that requires personal self-control, but merely “claiming” healing for any and all afflictions.

 


Concerns

  • The Bible does not offer unlimited prosperity as a guarantee to all believers in this life. In order to establish that all believers are entitled to unlimited wealth, scriptures must be ripped from their context by Word Faith teachers, and twisted to fit a pre-conceived notion of God’s will. Only when true believers “inherit the kingdom” in the resurrection will they have unlimited prosperity
  • The Bible does not offer perfect health and freedom from injury to all who believe. Only in the resurrection will believers have such perfection. Although there are miraculous healings described in the scriptures, many great servants of God have suffered injury or illness, with no instantaneous relief. Word Faith teachers often insist that believers must “confess” that they are healed from all affliction even though all of the symptoms of such affliction, such as cancer or diabetes, are still present. And they must avoid any mention of these symptoms lest they hinder the reality of their healing from “manifesting.” Some believers are thereby convinced to abandon all conventional methods of dealing with such afflictions, such as taking insulin for diabetes. And many others, who are unable to experience healing despite their dedicated, positive confession, are led to the point of despair because they assume that the lack of healing indicates a deficiency in their faith
  • Healings among Word Faith believers are frequently described as “gradual,” and it is even declared possible for those who believe that they have been healed to “lose their healing” if they falter in their positive confession. There is no indication anywhere in scripture that true, divine, miraculous healing is limited by such stipulations. Every instance of a healing actually described in the Bible is instantaneous, and the recipient does not do anything to “maintain” the healing. It is permanent. People in modern times do, indeed, “get better gradually” at times in a way that seems to indicate that God did intervene in their circumstances. This might include lessening of pain or a speedier recovery than was expected by medical doctors. But this is not the same thing as dogmatically claming the sort of instantaneous divine healing administered by Jesus and Paul and Peter—while the reality is that the healing is not at all of the sort experienced by those touched by Jesus, Paul and Peter
  • The Bible does admonish believers to be generous to others, and to serve God by investing their resources of time, money and goods into worthy causes such as helping the poor and spreading the Gospel. But nothing in the Bible supports the notion that donation of money to a particular teacher or group binds God to a promise to financially bless the donor with increase
  • The concept, as evidenced by the notion of a “hundred-fold blessing” for response to a plea for funds by a ministry, that God can be regularly counted on to intervene with financial miracles, appeals to precisely the same attitude in people that is drawn to casino gambling or buying lottery tickets. Christians can surely rely on God to intervene at times in their circumstances in times of crisis. But the promise by a televangelist that God is bound by the televangelist’s words to do a financial miracle for everyone in the audience during a given telethon is pure presumption on the part of such televangelists
  • The notion that God is somehow “bound” by the words of the mouths of fallible humans is blasphemous. God is sovereign, and can do anything He wishes any time He wishes. The true believer is a child of God and can come boldly before Him and make requests. But only God knows what is best for His children at any given moment, and what may be best for them is to deny their request. Just because they believe their request is based on a scripture which seems to “guarantee” that they are promised the thing that they are asking does not make it so.

Nuggets of TruthSome Bible students have a hard time resisting the teachings of the Word Faith movement because Word Faith teachers do, indeed, focus on some scriptures which are ignored at times by other Bible teachers.

  • We are told in the scriptures that, as children of God, we now have direct access to Him, and can “come boldly unto the throne of grace to make our petitions.” Many Christians are indeed timid with their prayers. There is a fine line between boldness and presumption. The Word Faith teachers definitely go over that line into presumption. But understanding that we need to avoid such presumption should not deter us from Godly boldness.
  • Many Christians do indeed conduct their lives as if they are utterly convinced that God no longer interacts with His creation. They do not expect any miracles from God, they do not expect Him to guide them personally through the Holy Spirit, and they do not expect Him to intervene in any way with circumstances in the world around them. They view Him as a God who is “afar off,” and although He will one day again send Jesus to the earth, that Jesus is only a figure on a throne in heaven at this point in time. Yet Jesus said, “Lo, I am with you always, even unto the End of the Age.” It is certainly possible to understand that God takes a very intimate interest in our daily lives, and interacts with us, and intervenes actively at times in our circumstances, without insisting that we control Him with our words.
  • The scriptures do not promise that every affliction that Christians will endure in this life will be lifted miraculously and instantaneously from them if they can just grasp the proper “keys” to such miracles. However, the Bible most certainly does claim that God can and does intervene miraculously at times to fulfill His own will in the lives of His people. And it thus admonishes us to pray for one another in such circumstances, and directs an individual who is sick to call for the elders of the church to anoint him. It is obvious from the letters of Paul that healing did not happen for everyone all the time. For instance, in one place he notes that he “left Timothy sick at Miletus.” And in another place, he suggests to Timothy that he drink a little wine to help his stomach problems. These were both men of great faith, who served God mightily. No doubt such sickness interfered with Timothy’s ability to accomplish as much as he would like in his ministry. Yet neither he nor Paul was evidently able to “claim” a healing for Timothy. At the same time, there is absolutely no indication that either stopped believing that God could and would perform future miracles including healing. Nor should believers of our time doubt this. God does heal, and even if the Word Faith teachers presumptuously insist that we can force Him to do so according to our own will, this does not negate the fact that sometimes it is His will to heal miraculously and instantaneously.

Players

The following list contains the names of some of the key Word Faith teachers, past and present, with national ministries……..

Charles Capps

Cho, Paul Yonggi

Copeland, Kenneth

Crouch, Paul and Jan

Duplantis, Jesse

Hagin, Kenneth

Hayes, Norvel

Hayford, Jack

Hickey, Marilyn

Jakes, T.D.

Kenyon, E.W.

Meyer, Joyce

Murdock, Mike

Parsley, Rod

Price, Frederick K.C.

Savelle, Jerry

Thompson, Dwight
http://www.isitso.org/guide/wordfaith.html

In bringing up  this thread up elsewhere, Here’s what some of the people there said:

The Word of Faith movement has quite a bit right in it. These include the following:

1) The PROFESSED authority of Scripture
2) Salvation by grace through faith alone
3) Believer’s baptism by immersion
4) Practice of spiritual gifts
5) Belief in Jesus Christ as the only Savior
6) The bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ
7) The death of Christ on the cross
8) The ascension of Christ to heaven and the Father’s right hand

I’m sure I’m missing a couple of things, but these are correct.

The problem, however, is that you can find every one of those truths in another place that is not permeated with the fatal error of the born again Jesus, false prophecies, and an undue emphasis on miracles and wealth.

The problem isn’t error; it’s DEADLY error.
M

Another, who was involved in the WOF movement had this to say:

Thanks for pointing out the fact that many in the WoF are not outright heretics denying the fundamentals. However, you must also recognize that what you might refer to as “deadly error” is held to different extents (or no extent at all) by different WoF proponents.

There are many in the movement who outright reject JDS. Others hold to some facet of it while rejeting other portions. Also, one must define what they mean by “born again Jesus.” The phrase can be inflammatory, but we do have at least two places where Jesus is said to be “the firstborn from the dead.”

Most of the focus on wealth that you see some TV ministries are usually neo-wof preachers. When I first came into the movement back in the mid-80s, I cannot remember the emphasis on wealth that I now see on TV sometimes. But I was certainly taught that it is not God’s will for one to be poor and poverty stricken, a belief I strongly hold to. What I don’t believe is that it is God’s will for everyone to have a mansion, yacht, and caviar for dinner every night.

False prophecies: I am against those too. However, I have difficulty with critics who criticize faklse prophecies and wink their eye at the false teachings in the non-wof Evangelical pulpit and then tell me that the two are not on the same level 9and ask me to accept this based on “common sense” rather than SCRIPTURE).

As my good friend SOS22 said on the issue when I brought it up to her,

 “Very interesting to read of the good points of WOF. I have to admit that I have looked on them only with a jaudiced view in the past after being told that if my faith was strong enough my son would be healed from asthma. It was topped with a broadcast on the GOD channel in which people were urged to send money or ‘God would not be able to bless them’.

I hadn’t realised that I was so hard line against them till this thread. I need to repent of that and accept their good points, which in my case was the kindness of the people in the WOF fellowship I belonged to for a short while. Their doctrine I found oppressive and deadly in regards to healing and wealth, but their hearts were sweet. 

However, another (with whom I had the most debate on the subject) had this to say:

 I will just post a scripture.

Rom 11:16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Obvious the converse is true as well. 

To that, I replied with this:  NOT EVERYONE WITHIN WOF (OR AT LEAST ASSOCIATED IN SOME WAY WITH SOME OF THE SAME THINGS/TEACHINGS SEEN PREDMONATELY IN WOF) THINKS THE SAME OR TEACHES THE SAME THING AND VIEWS WITH THE SAME INTREPRETATIONS OF SCRIPTURE.…….

To that, this individual had this to say:

Show where this is the perspective of scripture. I read.

Lev 10:10And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

2Cr 6:17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

What makes a thing unclean.

Gal 5:9A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.]

 What is the need to seek to try and find the truth? Remember Rom 1:18

Rom 1:18¶For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness(false doctrine);

Based on this approach, we would have to make Satan, the Devil a preacher. Because Satan in the temptation of Jesus, quoted accurately Psalms 91

Mat 4:5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Psa 91:11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Psa 91:12They shall bear thee up in [their] hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
So to post this the thread as it has been posted, it give an indirect appearance that WOF is fine.

  

To that, I brought up these points.

Perhaps I’m off saying this, but it seems that the purpose of this verse (God’s Laws) was to teach the people how to distinguish right from wrong, the holy from the common..….and you cannot do that unless you’re updated on what is common from Holy to begin with……and in the case with FALSE TEACHERS/APOSTLES who appear HOLY to the common eye, how can you aid someone who is being decieved by them and can’t tell the differene unless you yourself are able to POINT OUT/ACKNOWLEDE WHAT’S COMMON or HOLY TO BEGIN WITH?
As I’ve come to realize, one is better able to refute/expose someone for the wrong they teach by being able not only to recognize truth from falsehood, but knowing what they say when they say a falsehood and proclaim it as truth and pointing it out to make visible how many error are present and how easy it is to be decieved!

Even with the Scripture, “A Gal 5:9A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” (a teaching REFERRING to the Judaizers insidous and small false teaching of salvation by works, not to insuniate that EVERYTHING THEY SAID—MUCH OF it which was Accurate–WAS FALSE as well AND THEREFORE INVALID FOR THE CHRISTIAN WALK),

The analogy with Satan having to be a preacher, IMHO, is presumptious and almost like bad logic. That be like me saying, “Well, Because BIN LADEN used MONEY to purchase things for EVIL PURPOSES like 9/11, I’LL NEVER USE MONEY AGAIN..IT’S ALL EVIL, and the HANDS OF ON EVIL MAN WHO USED IT MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY EVIL BY NATURE……and if i use it, I’M AUTOMATICALLY AFFIRMING/BOUND TO SIT UNDER THE MAN WHO DID AS WELL”……or saying that “Because someone once used COUNTERFEit MONEY, ALL MONEY IS COUNTERFEIT AND THEREFORE I’LL NEVER USE MONEY AGAIN!!!! Man, how WISE AM I!!”)

Now (with the example being a bit extreme, but to make a humorous point), obviously, Is Money in and of itself INHERENTLY EVIL? Was it evil in it’s CREATION and never USED AT ALL FOR NOBLE/RIGHT PURPOSES?

Of course not, and to say that one will never use it again because it was once passsed through the hands of another who used it for the WRONG PURPOSES seems silly….as well as the mentality that one will NEVER EXAMINE MONEY TO SEE IF IT’S COUNTERFEIT and claim that all MONEY is COUNTERFEIT because of an INSTANCE OF ABUSE/DECEPTION (or INSTANCES, for that matter) and not seek USE REGULAR MONEY FOR THE RIGHT PURPOSES, as if it never was used to begin with.

However, this is the same mentality that seems to often happen when it comes to handling GOD’S WORD, ADRESSING ERROR, and PRACTICING DISCERNMENT.

IMO, How silly is it to use an EXTREME example of SATAN becoming an PREACHER/ANYONE SUBMITTING TO HIM because he used Scripture to back an argument…..and moreover, HE USED IT WRONGLY.

PSALM 91 wasn’t the isssue/what should be avoided, for the Scripture in and of itself is a BEAUTIFUL SCRIPTURE and NECESSARY FOR THE CHRISTIAN WALK….

But, in the case of the temptation, the REAL issue was that he used it for the WRONG PURPOSES (hint: meaning that there was ORIGINALLY a RIGHT PURPOSE behind it as well), and because Jesus was the WORD (John 1:1-5), knew the WORD and RECOGNIZED THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION BEHIND IT, He wasn’t decieved………but that does not NECESSITATE the NEED FOR HIS THROWING OUT PSALM 91 ENTIRELY as being APPLICABLE at ANY POINT IN TIME simply because the DEVIL QUOTED IT and it was USED INCORECTLY. It simply means that the DEVIL’S unbiblical INTREPRETATION OF IT was dismissed…….

That’s a general principle of Ministry that most intelligent ministers of the GOSPEL know of/make their students well aware of, for sometimes friends and associates will present attractive reasons why one should avoid something you KNOW Is wrong…..and they may even find BIBLE verses that seem to support their viewpoint…..and that’s why as CHRISTIANS FIGHTING FOR TRUTH or, as you yourself claim to be, desiring of developing a “BEREAN” mentality (Acts 17:11), need to STUDY THE BIBLE CAREFULLY, especially in the BROADER CONTEXTS OF SPECIFIC VERSES, so that you understand God’s principles for living and what he wants for our life….

For only if you understand what the WHOLE BIBLE says will you be able to recognize ERRORs of INTREPRETATION when PEOPLE TAKE VERSES OUT OF CONTEXT and TWIST THEM TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT THEM TO SAY……and that is also a PRACTICAL part of our job as Christians IN LEARNING how to tell the DIFFERENCE between a truly BIBLICAL TEACHING we should ACCEPT IN TOTALITY and a HERECTICAL ONE we should avoid but will be unable to detect if we don’t examine it first to see if the BIBLE approves of it.

Like the Word says,

Quote:
2 Peter 2False Teachers and Their Destruction

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

As Jesus told his disciples, false teachers would come (Matthew 24:11, Mark 13:22-23), and Peter heard these words and at this time he was seeing them come to pass. The false teachers were doing just as the OT ones did (Jeremiah 23:16-40, Jeremiah 28:1-17), for they were only telling people what they wanted to hear and TWISTING CHRIST’S MESSAGES/TEACHINGS as well as the WORDS OF THE APOSTLES……and the WORK OF CHRIST ON THE CROSS/RESSURECTION WAS BELITTLED as a RESULT.

Just like today in many CULTIC MOVEMENTS, some claim that Jesus’s couldn’t be God and others claimed that He couldn’t be a man….and others claimed, as is often the case within WOF and other movements, that GOD WAS SOLELY IN EXISTENCE TO MEET THE DESIRES OF THOSE HE CREATED, with any PLEASURE/DESIRE THEY WANTED VETOED as long as they NAMED CHRIST……..

Which again, is REASON ENOUGH to ALWAYS BE CAREFUL TO AVOID FALSE TEACHERS TODAY, and to make sure that ANY BOOK, TAPE SERIES, or TV MESSAGE MUST BE EVALUATED ACCORDING TO THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD’S WORD, examing the RESULTS of their teachings, the FRUIT THAT COMES FROM IT to see if their BIBLICALLY consistent, their motives, their direction they’re taking and the RESULTS THEY’RE SEEKING……..

And in the case that they use CORRECT THEOLOGY AT TIMES TO MAKE THEMSELVES APPEAR MORE LEGITIMATE (as they often do—-for that’s part of using “smooth talk and flattery” to decieve others, adding ENOUGH POUNDS of LEGITIMATE THINGS to say and thus making it easier in the future to slip in HERECTICAL TEACHINGs unoticed and making it more EASIER to CONFUSE PEOPLE/HOLD THEM IN BONDAGE—Romans 16:18….and, in case anyone is interested, #128 #129 #130 ), that we TAKE BACK THE TRUTH THEY’VE HIJACKED and begin USING IT FOR THE RIGHT PURPOSES AGAIN, so THAT we’d be EQUIPPED TO KEEP OURSELVES FROM ERROR and HELP RESCUE THOSE WHO STILL MAY BE CAUGHT WITHIN IT but have been DECIEVED by the ENEMY (II Timothy 2:23-26)

I was recently reading the Word recently and came across this passage, which has been brought up in similar conversations I’ve had with others on the issue of COMMON GROUND.

In reading it, I found some things that I’d like to share and recieve feedback on later…..and I hope that in all that I’m saying that it makes sense

Regarding the passagre, Obvious is the fact that some people were preaching “a diffferent gospel”, teaching that to be saved, Gentile Believers had to follow Jewish laws and customs, especially the rite of circumcision…..and giving the appearance that FAITH IN CHRIST WAS NOT ENOUGH…….AND THAT WAS ENOUGH TO UNDERMINE THE TRUTH OF THE GOOD NEWS THAT SALVATION IS A GIFT, not a reward for certain deeds…….

According to my study bible, The people who were doing this were the JUDAIZERS, who were an EXTREME FACTION OF JEWISH CHRISTIANS. Regarding Galatian Christians (Greeks), WHO WERE EXTREMELY UNFAMILAR WITH JEWISH LAWS AND CUSTOMS, and JUDAZIERS—-Both Groups believed in CHRIST, but their lifestykes differed considerably……and though some of the Judaziers were motivated by sincere wish to intergrate Judaism with their new Christian Faith, sincere love for their Jewish Heritage or any other factor, their teaching still threatened these new churches and had to be countered.

Funny, though, that when PAUL called their teaching A PERVERSION of the Gospel, he was NOT REJECTING EVERYTHING JEWISH (i.e. that which is BIBLICAL). He Himself was A JEW who worshipped in the temple and attended the religious festivals.

But he was concerned for that which would GET IN THE WAY of the simple truth of his message—that salvation. for the Jews and Gentiles alike, is through faith in Jeus Christ ALONE—-and it was with the paticular error skewing his messagge ALONE that he dealt with rather than anything else legitimate surrounding it/attached to it (i.e. the package it came in…..and if you want further information on the issue, go to Acts 15 since it deals with sometime after the Letter to the Galatians was sent and how Paul met with the apostles to adress the issue )

All that said, it is obvious from Sctripture that, as Paul did, we should STRONGLY denounce anything peverting the GOSPEL of Christ….for the issue of PERVERSION is a LIFE OR DEATH ISSUE and STRONG LANGUAGE IS OFTEN NEEDED, as was the case with Paul, even to the point that he extened the curse to include himself should HE pervert the Gospel.

As he said, “If Even an Angel from Heaven comes down preaching another message, that angel should be “eternally condemened”….and an angel from heaven coming to preach another message would not be from HEAVEN, no matter how he looked.

Go to II Corinthians 11:14-15, where it discusses how Satan Himself masquerades as an ANGEL of Light, and one will quickly realize the principle of how, according to my study Bible, ” Satan/his servants can decieve people by appearing to be attractive, good, and moral…with many unsuspecting people following their smooth-talking, Bible-Quoting leaders into CULTS that alienate them from their families and lead them into practices of immorality/deciet….but don’t be fooled by EXTERNAL appearances, for our impressions alone are not an accurate indicator of who is or isn’t a true follower of Christ; so it helps to ask these questions:

  • Before I accept this teaching as true or dismiss it entirely, do the TEACHINGS CONFIRM SCRIPTURE (Acts 17:11) and is it practiced outside within ORTHODOX CHURCHES regularly, or are there other orthodox churches who practice what this false teacher is claiming to have originally created and yet those churches which are sound have not had any contanct with him/fellowship but the teaching is bringing about genuine “Fruit of the Spirit” in the Lives of those practicing it (Galatians 5:16-25),
  • Does the teacher affirm and proclaim that Jesus Christ is God who came back as a man to save people from their sins (I John 4:1-3)?
  • Is this teacher’s lifestyle consistent with BIBLICAL MORALITY (Matthew 12:33-37)

Going back to Galatians 1:6-8, one must remember however that a TWISTING OF THE TRUTH is more DIFFICULT to spot than AN OUTRIGHT LIE, as it was for the Judaziers who claimed to follow Him but denied that Jesus’ work on the cross was sufficient for salvation…….and the same is still happening today, whether it be because some truly do not understand what the Bible teaches or because they are not willing to accept the truth as it is…….. and it can be dangerous to simply DISMISS SOMETHING ENTIRELY AS A LIE but never attempt to see where perhaps the lie may be a truth that has been twisted/find out what that truth was ORIGINALLY.

That’s why it’s always important to do as the Bereans did and simply take the time to not only find out what a paticular group teaches about Jesus, but to see if the teaching itself is in line with Scripture before choosing to accept it……..

And in the case that error is found, by ALL MEANS CORRECT THE ERROR/MOVE ON SO THAT THE TRUE GOSPEL/TRUTH OF CHRIST CAN BE SEEN…..BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF inadvetantly REJECTING ALL OF THE BIBLICAL/CORRECT POINTS included with that ERROR IN THE PROCESS THAT MAY BE of VALUE TO THE BELIEVER (as is otften the case)

That’s not what Paul DID, and neither should we—Believing that all the LEGITIMATE/SOUND/BIBLICALLY COnfirming THINGS found ALONGSIDE Error, AND OFTEN USED IN THE CONTINUED PROMOTION OF ERROR, must be DISCARDED ALONGSIDE THAT ERROR in order to PROPERLY LABEL A MOVEMENT AS DANGEROUS/HERECTICAL or something to be AVOIDED.

Also, consider Matthew 23:1-12.

The Pharisses were doing many wrong things and promoting many wrong teachings/intrepretations of Scripture……..but despite the extra-biblical traditions and practices,hat was Jesus’s Solution? Ignore/not acknowledge what they did that was true becasue of the wrong actions they committed?

No, before denoucing them/calling out what they did bad, what Jesus did was simply warn them to do as they say in the RIGHT THINGS they were teaching but ignore/avoid the wrong applications/styles they were doing them in. (Matthew 23:3-4).

“Observe and do all they tell you to do, but do not doo accordiing to their works……”

In other words, insofar as it accords with the Word of God/TRUTH, DON’T DISOWN IT BECAUSE OF THE SOURCE (Hyproctical people), but do it.

Regarding His Words in Mark 8:14-21, from my understanding, the context surrrounding that was of unbelief. For prior to that, Jesus had been peforming many great Miracles and yet the religious leaders were demanding a sign. And the disciples had seen plenty of signs as well.

The Pharisees had tried to explain away many of Jesus’s miracles by claiming they were done by luck or sleight of hand or coincidence/evil. When demanding for another sign, Jesus’ knew that nothing He did would change them because they had determinsed not to believe. Their hearts were hardened and the yeast Jesus was referreing to was UNBELIEF——He didn’t deny that anything the Pharisees said was accirate EVER in their teachigs and that they should watch out for the godly/wise things they said. What He did say was that a little UNBELIEF Can corrupt much, for a little evil of Unbelief can corrupt on a great level (Matthew 16:1-12), and that kind of yeast started to infect even the disciples…..which iswhy JESUS HAD TO REMIND THEM OF HIS MIRACLES AT ONE POINT WHEN THEY THEMSELVES WERE SLOW TO REMMBER/BELIEVE HIM (Mark 8:14-21).

Jesus fed over 5,000 people with five loaves and two loaves of bread (Mark 6:33-44) and yet in a single instance, they doubted whether He could feed another large group when there was no need foor them to do so.

Again, along with false teachings/intrepretations of the Phariseses, UNBELIEF.REFUSAL TOACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH is what the Leven refers to0——-not necessarily meaning that we should avoid/ignore the right that another teaches. And even where there’s error that needs tobe adressed in achurch (I Corinthians 5:1-8), THAT DOESN’T SEEM TO MEAN THAT THE TRUTH/GOOD in a church should be dismissed. You can do both, IMO

 y M.O is not to accept the falsehood ALONG WITH the TRUTH (ex. saying that Creflo is acceptable because he made a true statement, such as “God is a Good/Merciful God” but ignoring all of the other FALSE teachings he makes as if it’s of no consequence……..and I’m not about listening to Him 24/7 or buying his books, as that is forbidden by the Word of God–).

Ephesians 5:8-13
8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13

2 John 1:7-11

7Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

This would, IMO, be where the DEMON SITUATION FROM Acts 16:16-19 would come in, for Paul never ignored the acurate statement she announced the truth about Paul. But neither did He support her in condoning those things that were off with her. IT WAS A DEMON SOURCE AND PAUL ACCEPTING THOSE WORDS WITHOUT ADRESSING THE FALSEHOOD/EVIL WOULD APPEAR TO BE LINKING THE GOSPEL WITH DEMON-RELATED ACTIVITIES, and that would damage the message of Christ. But to rebuke her and NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH SHE SAID would have been just as damaging.

  Remember the situation with Jesus tempted in the Wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11, Luke 4:1-13)? There was one point where the DEVIL came to Him and, after failing the first time to decieve Him, procedded to quote Scripture to Jesus. Now, though the Devil was twisting what the Scripture said to suit his purposes, did Jesus deny that the Scripture itself was invalid? Or that it was an untrue statement? Or that, even in the case of it being twisted, deny that there was a original biblical basis for the statement that the devil redfused to acknowledge?

Jesus was able to resist and complete HIS MISSION BECAUSE, prior to the temptation, Jesus was full of the Word/Power and knew the original context Scriptures were spoken in and the applications that could come from it……and likewise, that’s what my M.O is.

As Ive said elsewhere, sometimes friends or associates will present attrative and convinving ideas and to why we should do/believe something…..and, as many within WOF do, they may even find Bible Verses that seem to support their viewpoint.

That’s why we should study the Bible carefully, especially the broader contexts of specific verses so that we understand God’s principles for living and what He wants for our lives……and only when we understand what the WHOLE BIBLE SAYS (as well as testing the Fruit of something to see whether or not it seems consistent to what the Word advocates—Galatians 5:16-25) will we be able to recognize the errors of intrepretation when people take verses out of context and twist them to say what they want it to say (as many within WOF have been known to do).

 ope that clarifies my stance on things. It’s not that I’m 100% for WOF or that I support without question those most visible within the Movement who do WICKED THINGS……

They need to be exposed, as well as their theology, for what it is. But, though I won’t support them, I don’t deny many of the things they say/do that are BIBLICAL and that perhaps there’s a layer of truth behind it simply because they’re “WOF” (http://www.christiandiscussionforums…ad.php?t=62877).

 And, contrary to what some may think, I’ve experienced many things that WOF believes/practices and in studying the Word have to come to find very BIBLICAL……and in testing out those practices in my own life,, I;ve experienced nothing but what seems likkee good FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT (Galatians 5:16-25)

Remember Mormons, anyone? They have been known to promote many good things (i.e. knowing what you believe and why you believe it, the importance of family, faithfulness to fellowshipping with others, being involved in one’s community, seeking to bring about social change, etc) and many people generally believe them to be a legitmate branch of Christianity, despite the fact that the image of CHRIST that they present is a FALSE GOSPEL and they themeselves are a herecttical group……that, and the fact that much bad fruit is produced as a result of the nature of the group (The Practice of Pologamy, for example).

Now, in dealing with a group such as this (or any other Herectical Movement done in the Name Of Christ, OUTSIDE OF WOF, such as Jehova’s Witnesses, Christian Science, etc……and make no mistake, PEOPLE LIKE THIS ARE NOW APPEARING ON TBN/CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING), if I were trying to witness to another/warn of the dangers inherent in those groups, how would I practically go about it while also not running the risk of making it appear that the moral/ethical truths they may lay claim to (with the intention of making them appear SOUND/REASONABLE, while also serving as a FRONT for the lies/corruptiions of truths they also promote) are not lost?

For a practical example, what would you say to someone in a church belonging to Jamal Bryant and who was defending him on the basis that he does many charitable things for the youths in the community (i.e.supporting agencies against abortion, HELPING Others to pay their finances when they’re unable to, creating housing programs, aiding programs for those struggling with promiscuity or drug-related problems, making sure that the youth stay out of gangs and having activities that would help them to succedd in school/careers, encouraging the congregation to love one another/get involved in the community, etc).

You realize that Jamal’s doctrine is off and is dangerous for the person who sits under it (Galatians 5:9) and you earnestly desire to make them aware of it…….but If someone you were trying to help get out of his church said “You don’t understand! He really cannot be that bad when he seems so concerned for everyone and has really helped me out ALOT”—-WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Would you, knowing that Jamal’s teaching is BLANTALTY wrong and by nature dangerous, choose to also include that the actions he’s done which are right would be worthy being considered dangerous as well (and note: this is something that many Christians have done when trying to

Would it be important, in exposing the falsehoods, to make clear that the ethical truths they may often say alongside the lies they produce *( in order to make them more believable, as False teachers often do…) did not ORIGINATE within that movement and are not necessarily apart of it or by nature worthy of our being suspicious?

Is there any possible way to adress a valid/ethical principle within a movement that they may be “PIRATING”/Using to make themselves look legit without leaving the impression that one is in support of the MOVEMENT AS A WHOLE AS BEING ACCEPTABLE or that ONE SHOULD EMBRACE RATHER THAN AVOID IT?

If the Bible WAY IN ADVANCE clearly stated something to be TRUE and showed how to properly apply it, it would seem illogical for me to stop believing it or disown it alltogether when another group comes along FAR LATER and expouses the same thing.

Judging intent of course is necessary, but I’m still not seeing how adressing/accepting the things a Herectical movemnt may say which are indeed Biblical is AUTOMATICALLY affirming the movement itself, especially in light of the fact that what they may say that’s CORRECT Biblical Interpretation did not ORIGINATE with them and therefore they can make no CLAIM to their recieving credit for it or requiring me to affirm them as something that one should consider VALID/Continue to Follow.

To me, it’d still seem like common sense because I’m not affirming the Movement, but rather the Truth Biblical truths themselves they’ve wrongly applied, in effect making them lies, alongside the Blantant lies they present that have no basis in Scripture……..and moreover, it would seem logical that there’s nothing wrong with doing so when I’m already LOUDLY/ACTIVELY making clear TO OTHERS that the movement is not something that one should have any involvement with and that, even in their saying of somethng TRUE, that people need to check out the reason for which they said it.

Again, Of course I would make certain that I examine the context they use it and the purpose they do so in—– before affirming it as SOUND— because doing otherwise would be like accepting a lie if it a truth that was initially good was used to promote the wrong things. But in the case that they actually made a correct application of Scripture, that needs to be pointed out.

For example, consider this all too common scenario that happens with many HERECTICAL TEACHERS/ORGANIZATIONS.

One who may not know better visits their church and, in seeking to find out if they’re really legit, investigates a statement of their beliefs. They have things including the following:

  • LOCAL CHURCH. We believe the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is a Body of believers who have been baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; who are under recognized, delegated authorities; and who assemble to worship, carry forth the Great Commission, and minister as the Holy Ghost leads. We believe the local church promotes regular fellowship with other believers and a commitment to a local church with regular participation in its activities is iimportant for personal spiritual growth (Matt 16:18; Matt 28:19, 20; John 17:11, 21:12; Acts 2:40-47; 20:28; Rom 12:4-5; Ephesians 4:11-16, 5:22-32, I Timothy 3:15; Heb 10:25).mportant for personal spiritual growth (Matt 16:18; Matt 28:19, 20; John 17:11, 21:12; Acts 2:40-47; 20:28; Rom 12:4-5;
  • LORD’S SUPPER: A memorial of the death, resurrection, and Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 22:13-20).
  • PRIESTHOOD OF BELIEVERS. We believe that each believer is a priest of the Lord (Revelation 1:6) and has direct access to the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ. Each person must believe for himself, be baptized for himself, obey for himself, and answer to his Creator for himself.
  • HOLY SPIRIT. We believe the Holy Spirit to be the third person of the Trinity whose purpose in the redemption of man is to convict men of sin, regenerate the repentant believer, guide the believer into ALL truth, indwell and give gifts to believers as He wills, that they may minister as Christ would to men.
  • PRIESTHOOD OF BELIEVERS. We believe that each believer is a priest of the Lord (Revelation 1:6) and has direct access to the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ. Each person must believe for himself, be baptized for himself, obey for himself, and answer to his Creator for himself.

Now, as often is the case (and trust me, I KNOW BECAUSE I ATTENDED A WOF CHURCH AND HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE THAT MANY OTHER CHRISTIANS DECIEVED BY MANY ON TBN HAVE HAD), most folks who didn’t study the Word or were just beginning in their faith would look around that church and not have any issue. Many of the BIBLICALY ACCURATE creeds stated would be highly emphazed and practiced within the church, such as the belief in church fellowship/participation being essential or that one needs to baptized as a sign of salvation and many other things to count.

Furthermore, they’d be exposed to many things, such as ethical principles, being taught in that church (i.e. Hearing things like “We need to be involved in the community/helping out the youths on the street” and then going to things like street ministry, helping others out in paying their utilities when they were unable to……or, as happened recently at T.D Jakes Church, going down to the site where Hurricane Katrina hit and helping to bring in supplies like clothing/food that could be of benefit when hearing the principle of “Do unto others as you would have them do to you”, etc).

ThERE were many UNBLICAL things that were subtely being taught in the church (such as the idea, for example, that Jesus, becasue HE said in His Word could relate to us, means that He was not perfect)……..AND many truths also that became lies because of how they were used (such as the Scriptures dealing with GODLY BOLDNESS and how they describe that s , as children of God, we now have direct access to Him, and can “come boldly unto the throne of grace to make our petitions.” and then twisting that to mean Christians should come to God PRESUMPTIOUSLy DEMANDING GOD DO WHAT THEY WANT RATHER THAN BEING MEEK ABOUT IT.….
Or using MATTHEW 6:24-33 and the idea of how “God takes care of those who seek Him”, then twisting that to mean that God gives you EVERYTHING you could want on a whim if you sought Him, or the truth that there were many Christians in the OT and NT who were RICH and procedding to twist that into saying “It’s not wrong to WANT TO BE RICH AND THAT IF THEY WERE, SO CAN I!!!!”that if you’re not EXTREMELY financially wealthy, then you’re in sin because and believe that things cannot be so bad because of all the genuine good things taking place………

All the while this was going on, I was sincerly desiring in my heart to be pleasing to the Lord and be the best Christian I could be. And even though I didn’t know enough Scripture to refute many of the wrong applications of what many WOF associated preachers said…..

and even in the instances where things didn’t feel right or I saw something in the Word contrary to what the minister stated, all of the issues seemed insignificant because of the fact all the legitimate good/charitable things taking place…..and even in testing the fruit, it seemed as if I had genuine GOOD Fruit of the Spirit ib my Life (Galatians 5:25)—–Honestly, as many others can attest if you look for them, I felt joyful, loved those around me and experienced many other wonderful things that I truly believed were nothing but the HAND OF GOD at work in my life.

If someone had told me then that “Creflo, Copeland, Jakes…they’re deciving you!!!”, I would’ve either blown it off or been very hesitant to believe the accusations. Moreover, I would’ve believed that they were bein g unfair in what they said and that the paticular ministers were truly “GOD’S ANOINTED” and were doing much good work for the KINGDOM.

What it took to deliver me, as well as many others, was for someone to not simply tell me that the organization itself was wrong or that it’s ministers were off, but for them to go step by step through the things Creflo or others were saying and examine their doctrine for what it was.

The person realized that there were many good things being done in the name of the movement that God said we should be doing……but rather than telling me that EVERYTHING THE MOVEMENT said was wrong (which would’ve continued to aid the confusion), the person made clear to me how good things can indeed take place in bad sources and that “tares and wheats look alike”.

They helped me to know that good works/actions were not what to evaluate an organization/indvidual on, but rather on the Words of Christ (Matthew 7:21-27)….and I was taught not only what Christ’s Word’s were but how to properly apply them to my life so that I wouldn’t dismiss them ou when another false teacher said them.

Even in the case that we knew the source was jacked up and the context he or she quoted a scripture/teaching in was probably corrupted, what we simply did was to go back to the WORD OF GODa and SAW WHAT BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE ON IT LOOKED LIKE ……and in realizing that it was what we were presented with was correct, we took it as our own to be applied.

And while rejecting the Movement of WOF Itself/telling others to flee from it, we never lost sight of the fact that the baseline standard others should go by for evaluating something as of the Lord wasn’t the ORGANIZATION itself that happened to use/highlight it more often than others—but always SCRIPTURE/COMPARING WHAT WE HEAR WITH THAT, even in the case that someone would explain away/contradict what was Biblical.

Basically, the idea of having that Berean mentality in evaluating sermon/teachings, regardless of the source or whether they may come from a HERECTICAL group or even one that may be considered ORTHODOX (as it was with Paul and the Bereans), we opened Scripture (and tested the fruit of it) for ourselves and searched to verify or disprove the message we heard…..

Quote:
Acts 17:11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The movement recieved NO CREDIT, because again, WHATEVER TRUE INTERPRETATION/APPLICATION OF Scripture was said by them was spoken by God first—-and only the twistings of Scripture and FALSEHOODS/evil intentions behind using the Word were credited to WOF. But apart from that initial step of helping me to know/spot the difference between what was TRUTH or not, I would’ve probably still been following the Movement.

It’s not as if this is something that is unheard of. For that’s what False teachers have always done:

s.

Quote:
Romans 16:17-20:
Watching Out for Wolves

17 Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. 18 For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting. 19 For the report of your obedience has reached to all; therefore I am rejoicing over you, but I want you to be wise in what is good, and innocent in what is evil. 20 And the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.


http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=2330

As someone wisely stated in an article,

Quote:
wolves deceive. Like Satan, their master, they are cunning, skilled in the art of deception. While they are sometimes bold enough to make a frontal attack, most often they seek to undermine and subvert from within. They are deceptive as to their identity and allegiance. They do not identify themselves as instruments of Satan but more often profess to be believers. They appear as “angels of light”:

Quote:
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).
Quote:
As our Lord warned, they come as “wolves in sheep’s clothing” (Matthew 7:15).

They are deceptive as to their message. If they were to advocate license and fleshly indulgence, they would very likely do so under the banner of “grace” (see Romans 6:1ff., Jude 4). If they were to advocate legalism, it would be put forth under the banner of “obedience” or “spirituality” (see 1 Timothy 4:1-5). They, like Satan, promise one thing but deliver another (see 2 Peter 2:19).143

Moreover,

Quote:
wolves seduce with their speech

Speech is a huge aspect of decieving people, and part of being a Smooth talker is not to simply say BLANTANT lies or to twist truths and use them for the wrong purpose, but to at times to give a correct application of what Scripture means. They start off by giving enough pounds of TRUTHFUL THINGS in order to make it seem like their OK with Lord/SEEKING TO BE IN LINE WITH SCRIPTURE, then after gaining people’s initial trust procedd tor on add into their twisted interpretations of the truth to get them messed up BEFORE THEY KNOW IT.

Quote:

2 Peter 2:1False Teachers and Their Destruction

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

For example, how often has it happened that a Herectical movement been teaching on a Biblical Teaching/Doctrine and, though the person teaching it may have the wrong desires/intentions of getting people off, the people in the audience innocently want to please the Lord and, after actually applying that teaching to their lives, saw amazing results?

I can’t tell you enough how many times I was told, for example, that GOD ANSWERS PRAYER or that if “God loves a cheerful giver….and if you give exceddingly, you reap exceddingly (II Corinthians 9:6-7), and in sincerly desiring to please the Lord/give generously to aid the church, I took the Scripture to heart and saw MIRACULOUS RESULTs I still cannot explain. I was always recieving resources from no where to supply the lack I was experiencing, and even when I was still struggling, it was amazing to see how God supplied my need by sending me people who would support me both spiritually/financially.

Though I was by no means rich (or even trying to be),it was incredible to witness God’s Word in Action and seeing Him demostrate how He takes care of those who generously invested in His Kingdom/for His people…….and the fact that people were telling me, “WOF’s a FALSE GOSPEL so nothing it promotes is true” was of no consequence because of how I went back to Scripture and found that what the pastor had said was indeed true………and I was that much more inclined to listen to him.

Even in coming out of the movement, it would bother me when people would say things like “WoF DOESN’T EVER SAY THINGS THAT ARE ON” because I came to realize that there were indeed MANY things that they focused on moreso than others that, though twisted for wrong purposes (i.e. Giving so that I can get back'”< as if God’s a Slot Machine or A Genie of Some sort) were indeed accurate BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES and that many Christians were suffering because they disregarded them out of the mentality of “Well Creflo or Copeland said it too, so it has to be WRONG!!!”, rather than realizing that the principle they discussed on wasn’t theirs to begin with.

It was SIMPLY HIJACKED by them and twisted for the WRONG PURPOSES, with the end goal of the enemy being to DISCREDIT the LORD/THE PRINCIPLES HE MADE FOR US TO LIVE BY ……but when examined to see what the Word had to say on it ORIGINALLY and applied correctly, I realized how it truly was a beautiful thing to be practiced BEFORE the Lord.

it’s actually beneficial for false teachers to say CORRECT things and occasionally discuss something other ORTHODOX churches hold to as true…or to “indeed, focus on some scriptures which are ignored at times by other Bible teachers and ORTHODOX Christian associations. In fact, when you think about it, it can be seen as a two-fold strategy of the ENEMY.

In the case that people believe them because of their occasionally making a correct application of Scripture, they’ll be that much more easier to seduce/keep in bondage (as it was with False Teachers back in the day—-Deuteronomy 13:1-18—-and to a degree the same with the serpant who tempted Eve not only by twisting a genuine desire she had to be like the Lord, as well as twisting God’s Words, but by actually speaking a true statement—that, as Adam/Eve experienced, that they’d recieved a knowledge of good and evil ….Genesis 3:4-5)

But In the case that they CHOOSE to not listen and ENTIRELY DISMISS what a FALSE TEACHER/MOVEMENT may say without ever seeing the difference between what a False Teacher said that was actually Right or not, people will end up going to the extreme of simply avoiding the Biblical SOUND/GOOD Things that were actually what they should’ve been pursuing all along…..

And sadly, ALL because of association and the fact that people percieve that if one were to say something that was also quoted by an ill-source, then what was stated is forever tainted (and IMO, that would seem as illogical as saying that because I throughouly researched/discovered a principle based in Scripture and then spoke of how it applied to our lives, that it should be discarded because Creflo or someone on WOF happened to say the SAME Thing in the SAME Way at a paticular instance…….

But Either way, people are hindered in their walks with Christ beacause of it.

 The majority of responses I got were basically, “WOF IS WRONG/STAY AWAY FROM IT”, “WOF TEACHES UNBIBLICAL THINGS” and other things along those lines……..and though Scripture was used often, I don’t believe that ANY of the responses were the END-ALL solution to the issue of dealing with those within HERECTICAL MOVEMENTS when I read various other things found throughout the Word of God.

I’m guessing that there may still be some assumptions from others about what the purpose of this thread may be, so let me be as clear as possible about what this thread is NOT about.

The thread is NOT for ADVOCATING THE IDEA THAT WOF IS BIBLICAL IN IT’S TOTAL ASSESMENT, nor is it being done with the assumption that there are NO DEADLY ERRORS WITHIN IT THAT NEED TO BE CORRECTED QUICKLY (i.e the “NAME IT/CLAIM IT” mentality, “GOD WANTS EVERYONE RICH MATERIALLY!!!”, “SOW A SEED INTO A PATICULAR MINISTRY AND GOD IS OBLIGATED TO BLESS YOU WITH MORE MONEY!!” and a host of other damaging teachings I could bring up)…

Nor is it being done with the assumption that YOU SHOULD CONSIDER ATTENDING ATTENDING A WOF CHURCH OR THAT we SHOULD JOIN FORCES/AVOID CONTENDING WITH THOSE WITHIN WOF, PATICULARLY FALSE TEACHERS, WHO ARE BLATANLY TEACHING ERROR, DECIEVING OTHERS, DENYING THE FAITH ENTRUSTED FOR ALL and turning the GOSPEL INTO SOMETHING ELSE (ROMANS 16:17-19, Jude 1:3-4)

All of the above things I’ve listed are things that GOD’S WORD is EXPLICITLY CLEAR ABOUT, and hopefully those on this forum who’ll commit to studying the Word will QUICLY realize that the WOF MOVEMENT is in MAJOR NEED of some DIRE RECONSTRUCTION, FROM IT’S VERY FOUNDATIONS TO EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS COME ABOUT FROM IT.

However, all of the things I’ve listed are not the WHOLE of what WE AS CHRSTIANS STANDING FOR THE TRUTH SHOULD DO.

What the PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD IS ABOUT IS UNDERSTANDING THE FACT THAT THOSE OFTEN INVOLVED IN HERECTICAL MOVEMENTS ARE DECIEVED, often under YEARS OF WRONG TEACHINGS/INFLUENCEEs but also with MANY BIBLICAL THINGS THAT THEY INDEED HAVE CORRECT…..and it is my goal to find more EFFIENCT WAYS TO RELATE TO THEM AND CONNECT WITH THEM.

This thread is about recognizing the fact that there are those who are truly CONFUSED about the TRUTH….and that part of WITNESSING to them/teaching correct DOCTRINE/TRUTH is being kind, gentle, APPROACHABLE and COURTEOUSLY/PATIENTLY EXPLAINING THE TRUTH rather than solely seeking to MAKE A POINT/WIN AN ARGUMENT……and part of explaining the truth is the practice of knowing how to promote CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOUGE WITH THOSE WHO OPPOSE YOU.

It involves listening to people’s questions, treating them respectfully in acknowledgin what they have that’S ON POINT rather than focusing solely on where they’re off/ending discussion there, and avoiding FOOLISH DEBATES (SOMETHING THAT STILL CONTINUES SADLY), ffor in doing so those who oppose you will be more than willing to hear what you have to say and perhaps TURN from their ERROR (II Timothy 2:23-26)……just as it has otften been the case for NUMEROUS people (myself included) once involved in CULTS/HERECTICAL MOVEMENTS, whether it be Jehovahs Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, Mormonism, Christian Science, and a Host of others.

If you’d like a Biblical Example of what I’m trying to do, go to Acts 17:16-33, where Paul was witnessing to the Greeks. I believe that we should all I try to follow his example/approach when it came to witnessing: Establish common ground, and helping people to move foward moreso toward true FAITH in Christ/DEVELOPING A MORE SOLID BIBLICAL FOUNDATION/WORLDVIEW for LIFE (as well as my own personal learning from others who don’t believ as I do as well).



That all said, I’m not saying that it’s all good for those who see no problem attending a WOF church or listening to those who spread HERECTICAL WoF TEACHINGS (and note, I didn’t say Generally accepted teachings that ORTHODOX churches teach as well but may be also preached from a FALSE TEACHER’S pulpit, but specifically HERECTICAL TEACHINGS, such as “JESUS WAS NOT PERFECT, “God WANTS ME RICH, SINCE PEOPLE IN THE BIBLE WERE TOO, and therfore I should PURSUE RICHES TOO”, etc)…LET ME BE CLEAR AS POSSIBLE:
AVOID THOSE THININGS WHICH ARE CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD!!!!!!

Quote:
Proverbs 30:5-6 5 “Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Quote:
Ecclesiastes 12:11-12 11 The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. 12 Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them……
Quote:
Romans 16:17-19 17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

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