EMISSARY^7 (G²)

COMMISIONED by CHRIST 4 SHARING HIS LIFE/KEEPING IT REAL ADMIST THE LIES (II Cor. 5:17-21))

“CHRISTIANS DO NOT SIN AT ALL!!!!!!” (and I Thought I heard it all……)

Posted by Gabriel (G²) on January 7, 2008

To anyone interested,

Here’s an quote by one of the brothers I dialouged with on CARM awhile ago. At the onset of the dialouge,  he had this to say:

I spent many years as WoF/Charismatic and I thought that I had heard just about all the possible twists of thought until yesterday when one began to surface that I had never heard of. It’s the idea that we can live without sinning. In fact, one of the group professes that he does just that. I guess I don’t know how he/they can reconcile this to what the Bible says in:
1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

I can see where a WoF would be very cautious about a ‘negative confession’, but seems to me that saying we don’t sin is not a positive confession but an out right lie.

To that, I was very much surprised to hear that. There was actually a guy on the radio, named Bob George that says, we don’t need to ask to be forgiven of sin anymore (yes, WILD)…..

Now, though the idea seems WAY OFF BASE, If I’m correct, I believe that it is the idea that since Christ was RIGHTEOUS/PERFECT, DEALT WITH TEMPTATION and OVERCAME IT, and that therefore we don’t have live in SIN ANYMORE N’ CAN BE FREE FROM IT……BASICALLY, THE IDEA THAT WE DON’T HAVET TO CONTINUE REPEATING THE SAME SINS WE USE TO DO and that ENSLAVED US. That said, there does seem to be some BIBLICAL BASIS FOR IT.

Quote:
Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a]7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. that we should no longer be slaves to sin—

8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.

21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord.

According to my Study Bible,

Quote:
Romans 6:1-4….in the church of Paul’s day, immersion was the usual form of baptism—that is, new Christians were completely “buried” in the water. They understood this form of baptism to symbolize DEATH and BURIAL of the old way of life. Coming up out of the water symbolized ressurection to new life with Christ. If we think of our old sinful life as DEAD and BURIED, WE HAVE A POWERFUL MOTIVE TO RESIST SIN. WE CAN CONSCIOUSLY CHOOSE TO TREAT THE DESIRES AND TEMPTATIONS OF THE OLD NATURE as if THEY WERE DEAD. Then we can CONTINUE TO ENJOY OUR WONDERFUL NEW LIFE WITH JESUS (Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:12 and Colossians 3:1-4)

We CAN enjoy our new life in Christ BECAUSE WE ARE UNITED WITH HIM IN HIS DEATH and RESSURECTION. Our evil desires, our BONDAGE TO SIN, AND OUR LOVE of SIN DIED WITH HIM. NOW, united by faith with Him in HIS RESSURECTION LIFE, we may have UNBROKEN FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD AND FREEDOM FROM SIN’S HOLD ON US (Ephesians 4:21-24, Colossians 3:3-15)

The power and penalty of sin died WITH CHRIST on the cross. Our “old self”, our sinful nature, died once and for all, so we are freed from its power. The “body of sin” is not the human body, but our rebellious sin-loving nature inherited from Adam. Though our body willingly cooperates with our sinful nature, we must not regard the body as sinful….

Here, Romans 6:6, Paul emphasizes that we NEED NO LONGER LIVE UNDER SIN’S POWER. God does not take us out of the World or make us ROBOTS—WE STILL WILL FEEL LIKE SINNING, and SOMETIMES WE WILL SIN (Note from G2: I think that this is where the distinction needs to be made, for if some within WOF say “I’LL NEVER SIN AGAIN”, in the sense of not being capable of it or being tempted, that’s a problem)

The difference is that before we were saved we were SLAVES to our sinful natures…..but now we can choose to live for CHRIST (Galatians 2:20)

Romans 6:11—-“Count yourselves DEAD TO SIN” means that we should regard our old sinful nature as DEAD and UNRESPONSIVE to SIN.

Because of our union and identification wwith Christ, we are no longer OBLIGATED to carry out those old MOTIVES, desires and goals..

Romans 6:16-18——All people CHOOSE A MASTER and PATTERN THEMSELVES AFTER HIM. WITHOUT Jesus, we would have no choice—we would have to apprentice ourselves after sin, and the results would be guilt, suffering and seperation form God.

[/quote]

All that said, I heard of the “we can live without sinning” thesis, and from what I’ve heard in WOF and from my experiences in the church, there’s nothing that appears to be UNORTHODX ABOUT….for we as Christians don’t HAVE TO SIN/BOUND TO DO SO.

However, if what was  heard was in the context of saying “I’m WITHOUT SIN AND INCAPABLE OF COMMITING IT”, or that ONE DOES NOT NEED FORGIVENESS FOR SIN DAILY or an unwillingness to daily ask the Lord to search one’s heart and REVEAL ANY AREA IN THEMSELVES WHERE SIN MAY BE AN ISSUE, that’s a different story:

Quote:
Psalm 19:12-14

12 Who can discern his errors?
Forgive my hidden faults. 13 Keep your servant also from willful sins;
may they not rule over me.
Then will I be blameless,
innocent of great transgression.

14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight,
O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

Quote:
Psalm 32

1 Blessed is he
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered. 2 Blessed is the man
whose sin the LORD does not count against him
and in whose spirit is no deceit.

3 When I kept silent,
my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.

4 For day and night
your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was sapped
as in the heat of summer.
Selah

5 Then I acknowledged my sin to you
and did not cover up my iniquity.
I said, “I will confess

my transgressions to the LORD “—
and you forgave
the guilt of my sin.

Selah

Quote:
Psalm 139:22-24

22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
I count them my enemies. 23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.

Quote:

Proverbs 20:9
Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”?Though it’s ABSOLUTE FALSEHOOD to say “we don’t sin” as a positive confession will keep you from sinnning (as if saying it enough times will keep you from sinning…..kinnda like Dorthy from WIZARD OF OZ where she clicked her heels and repeatedly saying “There’s no place like HOME” in order to get home, or the LITTLE Engine that could saying “I THINK I CAN, I THINK I CAN…..), does anyone here believe that CHRISTIANS ARE EITHER BOUND TO KEEP SINNING (specifically, in the SAME AREAS. we did before we met Him…like a man continually sinning in PORNAGRAPHY/CUSSING or a WIFE CONTINUALLY BEING ANXIOUS/short-tempered, etc) or that COMPLETE VICTORY OVER CERTAIN SINS IN OUR LIVES IS IMPOSSIBLE?

Moreover, is it possible to NEVER BE TEMPTED AGAIN BY SOMETHING ONE ONCE STRUGGLES WITH BEFORE CHRIST AND TO BE SET FREE FROM IT?

And what does it mean when the Word describes our having victory over sin’S POWER through CHRIST??(Romans 6-8? )

In following this dialouge, one of the people within WOF responded by saying this:

It’s funny how people who advocate the belief that we MUST sin only know those two verses from John’s epistle. Yet, here is one that is often ignored by them:

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

Not a nice description of the sinning one, now is it? John has a lot more to say on the issue of sin, but that is my favorite one. Paul also tells us that we have been freed from sin and those who sin are sin’s servants:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? …. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom. 6:1, 2, 6, 7)

So, for those of you who want to advocate the “we are supposed to sin all the time stuff” you go right ahead. As for me and my house, we shall serve the LORD!

To that, I heartidly agree.  Regarding the original individual who had the issue, it seems as if the man’s usage of that verse is to say that one must continue to go on SINNING and that it’s incorrect to say that VICTORY over sin (as in not having to sumbit to it or have a lifestyle of it) is IMPOSSIBLE

If that’s the case, From my understanding (and according to my Study Bible), the Context of I John 1:6-10 was one where John was confronting the first three claims of false teachers: that we can have fellowship with God and go on living in spiritual darkness (I John 1:6), that people had no natural tendency toward sin (I John 1:8), and that their conduct involved any sin at all (I John 1:8-10).

Regarding I John 1:8, this dealt with the second claim of people having no NATURAL tendency toward sin, and that they were “WITHOUT SIN”, and that they were then INCAPABLE of SINNING. Of course, this is A LIE., for the false teachers refused to take sin seriously and wanted to be considered Christians, but saw no need to confess and repent……and the death of Christ did not mean much to them as a result of believing they didn’t need it………for instead of repenting and being purified by Christ’s blood, they were encouraging sin among believers….

But IN THIS LIFE WE ARE ALWAYS CAPABLE OF SINNING, SO WE SHOULD NEVER LET OUR GUARD DOWN (I Corinthians 10:1-14)

Quote:
1 Corinthians 10:1-14

Warnings From Israel’s History

1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.
6Now these things occurred as examples[a] to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry.”[b] 8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test the Lord, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!

13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

Regarding I John 1:8-10, this was dealing with how the false teachers not only denied that sin breaks fellowship with God (I John 1:6) and that they had a sinful nature (I John 1:10), but that their conduct was ABOVE SIN ENTIRELY…….and of course, that was a lie that IGNORED ONE BASIC TRUTH: ALL PEOPLE ARE SINNERS BY NATURE AND BY PRACTICE……..and, although at conversion all our sins are forgivn—past, present, and future—-even after we become Christians we still sin and still need to confess…..and this is not not confession to gain God’s acceptance but rather to remove the barrier to fellowship that our sin has put between us and HIM…….

But of course, it is difficult for many people to admit their faults/shortcomings, even to God…and it takes HUMILITY to do so, honestly recognizing our weaknesses N’ revealing our sins to God rather than PRETENDING THAT WE’RE STRONG OR NOT IN THE POSITION WE’RE IN (which is where the POSITIVE Confession issue of WOF would best fit in)

That all said, THAT DOES NOT DISMISS or DENY THE FACT OF WHAT CHRIST DID AT THE CROSS AND THROUGH HIS RESSURECTION, or deal with what the Word says on CHRIST’S EMPOWERING US TO BE FREE FROM THE POWER OF SIN (i.e. BEING BOUND TO OBEY IT OR SUBMIT TO IT ANYMORE), for anyone who is living under the LORDSHIP of CHRIST CAN BE SET FREE FROM SIN’S POWER and CAN HAVE VICTORY OVER IT IN THEIR LIVES (and countless others who have struggled with besseting sins and encountered PASSIONATE RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST can attest to this, myself included……for I used to be heavily involved in Pornagraphy/other sins and yet when I submitted to Christ, I WAS AMAZED AT HOW MUCH FREEDOM I HAD AND THAT I WAS TRULY VICTORIOUS OVER THE ISSUE..

Am I still tempted? Of course….and have I fallen into sins of Lust since then? Absolutely.,…..but through Christ, THE SIN IS NO LONGER MY MASTER AND I AM NOT BOUND TO OBEY IT!——and that’s something MANY WOF churches teach which is indeed ACCURATE) ((Romans 6-8? and #3 )
Also, consider this:

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning because he has been born of God(1 John 3:8-9)

As my Study Bible says,

Quote:
We all have areas where temptation is strong and habits are HARD to conquer. These weaknessess give the devil a foothold, so we must deal with our areas of vulnerability. If we are struggling with a paticular sin, however, THESE VERSES ARE NOT DIRECTED AT US, EVEN IF FOR THE TIME WE SEEM TO KEEP ON SINNING. John is not talking about people whose VICTORIES ARE STILL INCOMPLETE; He is talking about people who MAKE A PRACTICE OF SINNING AND LOOK FOR WAYS TO JUSTIFY IT.

“No one who is born of God will continue to sin..” means that TRUE BELIEVERS DO NOT MAKE A PRACTICE OF SINNING, nor do they become INDIFFERENT to GOD’S MORAL LAW.

All believers still sin, but they are working to gain VICTORY OVER SIN,…..AND “GOD’S SEED REMAINS IN HIM” means that TRUE BELIEVERS DO NOT MAKE A PRACTICE OF SINNING BECAUSE GOD’S NEW LIFE HAS BEEN BORN INTO THEM.

Being Born of God, when the Holy Spirit comes into our lives, He gives us NEW MINDS and HEARTS, LIVES IN US, and BEGINS HELPING US TO BECOME LIKE CHRIST….AND OUR PERSPECTIVE CHANGES TOO BECAUSE WE HAVE A MIND THAT IS RENEWED DAY BY DAY BY THE HOLY SPIRIT (Romans 12:2, Ephesians 4:22-24)

And like the Word says,
[quote]

Quote:
1 John 3:10

10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.[/QUOTE]

On that last note (and a side subject), it may be noteworthy to say that, beyond NOT DOING RIGHT, the ULTIMATE INDICATOR THAT SOMEONE IS NOT OF THE LORD IS SEEN IN THE WAY THEY TREAT OTHERS, for LOVE IS ONLY A FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT (Galatians 5:16-25), and a life not DEMONSTRATING THAT is the ULTIMATE EVIDENCE INDICATING WHERE THEY STAND WITH GOD.

Quote:
1 John 2:10
Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble.

1 John 3:17
If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen

1 John 4:21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Moving on, To clarify, seeing that many within WOF SEE IT EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as do those who are OUTSIDE OF THE MOVEMENT, what exactly is the issue?

In saying Christians “Christians can live WITHOUT SINNING”, what was the ORIGINAL CONTEXT that phrase was spoken in? And, regarding positive confession, what to make of Romans 6:1-4?

For that to me seems to be slightly similar to a positive confession (i.e. in the sense of mentality/deliberately choosing to think of something other than how it may appear) of some sort when we’re told to “COUNT OURSELVES DEAD TO SIN/BURIED WITH CHRIST, for as stated earlier,

Quote:
that is, new Christians were completely “buried” in the water. They understood this form of baptism to symbolize DEATH and BURIAL of the old way of life. Coming up out of the water symbolized ressurection to new life with Christ. If we think of our old sinful life as DEAD and BURIED, WE HAVE A POWERFUL MOTIVE TO RESIST SIN. WE CAN CONSCIOUSLY CHOOSE TO TREAT THE DESIRES AND TEMPTATIONS OF THE OLD NATURE as if THEY WERE DEAD. Then we can CONTINUE TO ENJOY OUR WONDERFUL NEW LIFE WITH JESUS (Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:12 and Colossians 3:1-4)….and for more analysis of Romans 6, go to post #3


Also, to add to that, the REALITY OF Romans 6 is QUITE WITHIN REACH…..for when reading ROMANS 6 correctly, one can be at peace knowing that what the passage advocates isn’t SPOTLESS PERFECTION or NEVER MESSING UP, but simply a REALIZATION THAT WE NO LONGER HAVE TO LIVE UNDER SIN’S POWER and that through Christ, THEY DON’T HAVE TO CHOOSE IT WHEN IT COMES CALLING.

Does this mean that we’re ROBOTS? Of course not, for we will still feel like sinning at times and SOMETIMES WE WILL SIN….but the difference is that before we were saved WE WERE SLAVES TO OUR SINFUL NATURES, and NOW WE’VE BEEN GIVEN THE CHOICE TO LIVE FOR CHRIST.

That’s why the analogy of a SLAVERY was used (Romans 6:16-18), for in certain skilled crafts an apprentice works under a master who trains, shapes, and molds his apprentice in the finer points of his craft….and ALL PEOPLE choose a master and pattern themselves after him, but WITHOUT JESUS we’d have NO CHOICE——WE WOULD HAVE TO APPENTICE OURSELVES TO SIN, with the results being GUILT/SUFFERING AND DEATH/SEPERATION FROM GOD.

However, through Jesus, We can NOW CHOOSE GOD AS OUR MASTER..

IT’s not as if CHOOSING GOD AS OUR MASTER means that HE HAS TAKEN OVER COMPLETELY/OVERIDES US WITH HIS NATURE……for again, WE’VE BEEN GIVEN THE CHOICE AS TO WHOM WE’LL OBEY FROM HERE ON OUT……..and in FOLLOWING HIM, WE CAN ENJOY NEW LIFE as we LEARN HOW TO WORK FOR HIM (and to note, “LEARNING” implies that one has an option of doing something but that they’ll ALSO MAKES MISTAKES IN TRYING TO MASTER SOMETHING!!!!)……..

But of course, the LEVEL OF VICTORY we have in our lives is OUR CHOICE, for WE DETERMINE DAILY HOW MUCH OF OURSELVES WE GIVE TO GOD so that HE CAN USE THAT AS AN INSTRUMENT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, even if it’s something we give and that takes place BIT BY BIT,.

For there are some areas in our lives we more READILY SUBMIT TO HIM while others are still OFF LIMITS FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME, and others WE’RE PRONE TO FALL IN and which we give to Him and want Him to change but yet we haven’t learned to RELY SOLEY ON HIS SPIRIT FOR DELIVERANCE, which is why on some things WE MAY HAVE INSTANT VICTORY and others seem to take place PROGRESSIVELY

I can testify to This, for this was the case with me when I was heavily involved in PORNAGRAPHY FOR YEARS.There were times when I yielded that part of my life to HIM/EXPERIENCED VICTORY and others when I wanted to honor HIM but RELIED ON MYSELF moreso than HIM, falling into SIN AS A RESULT….

But through all of that, SIN WAS NOT THE ONE IN POWER and I ALWAYS HAD THE CHOICE OF EITHER YIELDING TO IT or CHOOSING TO BE INACTIVE TO IT./AVOID IT …..

And then choosing to DIE TO MYSELF and REMEMBER THAT I NO LONGER EXIST AS I DID BEFORE I KNEW HIM and therefore CAN NO LONGER CHOOSE TO MAKE CHOICES apart from HIS LORDSHIP as the “OLD G2” DID BEFORE KNOWING HIM—–-for a DEAD MAN ISN’T ATTRACTED TO ANYTHING (“Count Yourselves DEAD TO SIN”–Romans 6:11-14)—-AND only being ACTIVE n ATTENTIVE TO CHRIST YIELDING TO GOD, participating with HIM SO THAT, I EXPERIENCE VICTORY AFTER VICTORY

Did it happen AUTOMATICALLY? OF course not…..but through HIS POWER I GOT IT REGARDLESS!!!!


In connection with that:

Quote:
2 Peter 1:3-11

Making One’s Calling and Election Sure

3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the DIVINE NATURE and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.

8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I think this is a worthwile passage to consider in line with this discussion, for the power to grow DOESN’T COME WITHIN US, but FROM GOD……and because we don’t have the resources to truly be HOLY, God allows us to “participate in the divine nature” in order to keep us from sin and help us to live for HIM…..FOR WHEN we are born again, God by His SPirit EMPOWERS us with His OWN MORAL GOODNESS (John 3:6, John 14:17-23, II Corinthians 5:21, AND I Peter 1:22-23)

Praise God that, though living in a fallen world/prone to sin in OUR OWN SELVES, we’re allowed TO HAVE the DIVINE NATURE CO-EXIST with US, ENCOURAGED AND ALL THE MORE READY TO TAKE UP THE RESPONSIBILITY OF WORKING HARD AND DEVELOPING THE ACTIONS/TRAITS that are to be A CONTINUAL PART OF OUR LIVES….

But, as another noted earlier, to say that the divine nature of the Lord SUPERSEDES our OWN HUMAN NATURE, thus meaning that we no longer have to work TOGETHER WITH HIM TO DEVELOP WHAT ONLY HE CAN PRODUCE or that we’ll never be guilty of COMMITING SIN AGAIN–—-THAT’S AN ISSUE.RegarDING THE DISCUSSION and the NATURE we have in Christ or whether our nature is SUPERCEDED BY GOD’S NATURE rather than CO-EXISTING WITH IT, consider this:

Quote:
Romans 7:7-25

Struggling With Sin

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”[a] 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[b] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

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3 Responses to ““CHRISTIANS DO NOT SIN AT ALL!!!!!!” (and I Thought I heard it all……)”

  1. pjmiller said

    Good topic!

    Reading your post reminded me of a guy i met on a Christian discussion bd. who argued the point that once a person repents and is born again, the need to ever repent again is no longer a requirement. In other words, our one-time of repenting covered all sins–past AND future. That was a new one on me…If Christians never sin then i’ve spent a considerable amount of time over the last 27 years, repenting for no good reason. aha

    We are to strive daily for perfection..to be like Christ, but only Christ was/is perfection–sinless. …We are to submit to the Spirit changing us daily:

    But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2Cor.3:18

    To believe we are incapable of sinning again after salvation would mean we would have to be walking in the Spirit 24/7. I can honestly say i don’t do that: i want to, STRIVE to, but many times fail. So i repent of those activities, thoughts etc which come not from walking in/by the Spirit but from my flesh. Why? Because our enemies are the the Flesh, World and the Devil; that tells me we will fight [spiritually] against these enemies as long as we are in this body of flesh.

    Our bodies have not been redeemed as yet so are still able to be influenced by our 3 enemies:

    Rom 8:22-23- For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

  2. hi gg, hny,
    when i sin, it’s because of the struggle that’s going on in my members. Romans 7 18-25. i know what i shouldn’t do but i do it anyway. my flesh is weak, and i yield. i earnestly believe that it takes a while to overcome some sins more than others simply because we don’t want to be free yet. we’re still enjoying it far too much to surrender it to Jesus. we take God’s grace for granted and because we don’t see the effects of our sin immediately, we deceive ourselves into believing that God overlooked it. however, Galatians 6:7 is still true regardless of whether we suffer the consequences of our sin immediately or down the road.

  3. […] GOT MAIL” (i.e. Recent Comments) angela aka mrs. mave… on “CHRISTIANS DO NOT SIN A…pjmiller on “CHRISTIANS DO NOT SIN A…‘Round’ … on A KINGDOM DIVIDED: Sermon […]

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