EMISSARY^7 (G²)

COMMISIONED by CHRIST 4 SHARING HIS LIFE/KEEPING IT REAL ADMIST THE LIES (II Cor. 5:17-21))

GOD ALWAYS HEALS n’ MUST if you have FAITH”: An WOF idea bad 4 developing TRUE LOVE/MARRIAGE?

Posted by Gabriel (G²) on October 19, 2007

This may seem like a weird post to write, but it occured to me the other day during my time at work and has been on my mind for a good while….

For though I attend a Charismatic church where we believe in healings and that there’s nothing unbiblical in praying for them/expecting them to happen (as I have no doubt on myself since I’ve read the Word on the issue, practiced it, and witnessed the amazing results/fruits many times in my own life as well as that of others ), it occured to me that those who may say “IT’s GOD’S WILL TO HEAL EVERY PERSON EVERY TIME THEY’RE IN SOMETHING” may not realize the FULL RAMIFICATIONS of their statements……and especially in one area of life that many at times think inconsequential/unrelated to the issue: TRUE LOVE/COMMITMENT.

I know of a couple in our church who are elders, and in the case of the elder’s wife, she was parlyzed from the neck down in a car accident a long time ago. Of course they wisely went to the doctors to see what could all be done possibly to help her and they tried as best as they could, but nothing was able to happen to set back the situation COMPLETELY. She’s in a wheelchair, parlyzed from the neck down and able to experience some movement in one of her hands, which she uses to move her chair around by remote.

Have there been others in her situation who were healed? Of course…and did our church pray that God would be merciful in healing her? Absolutely…..and did we or they still pray believing in faith that it is God’s heart to heal still and that it’s still something to hope for in her situation? Without question….but the reality is that she has yet to be healed.

Now, sad as the situation is for the couple, sadder still is that MANY husbands would’ve easily left out of the situation for various reasons, even the ones who believed themeselves to be Christian……often saying things like “Well, what kind of future could we have together?” or “How can my needs (i.e. sexual ones) be met now? or “She’s unatrrative now and even if she has some of it left, she’s not as nearly as attractive as when she could walk”……..and a host of other excuses others can come up with

And yet, her husband is still with her after such a LONG TIME of Marriage (I’d say about 15 TO 20) in her situation. Despite how time-consuming it can be to do the things that are required and sometimes frustrating to handle (i.e. bathing her, helping her out to relieve
herself when she needs to use the Bathroom/relieve herself, cleaning her up, driving her places, etc), it was astounding to me to witness how he STILL THINKS SHE’S THE MOST AMAZING/HOTTEST Woman in the WORLD…..and moreover, that SHE’S JUST AS BEAUTIFUL TO HIM, if NOT MORESO, than she was before the accident.

He still beautifies her, adores her, praises her before others and is still her HUSBAND/FIRST MATE…….and even though it’d be nice to see her healed and I wonder what it would be like if she could walk again, I think that compared to most couples, if not all couples I see today, truly THEY ARE THE MOST ASTOUNDING AND BEAUTIFUL….for they HAVE FLOURISHED IN SPITE OF ADVERSITY rather than in the ABSENCE OF IT…..AND THEY ARE SO BEAUTIFUL BECAUSE OF HOW THEY’VE TRULY CHOSEN TO DO LIKE DAVID AND “BLESS THE LORD AT ALL TIMES” (Psalm 34), with their faces truly being nothing but RADIANT, their JOY ABUNDANT, and their LIVES SATISFIED/PLEASING TO HIM because they fear the Lord and God has PROVIDED FOR THEM THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH IT ALL.!!!!!!!

To quote something from a movie I saw recently(yes, it’s Disney Folks and I say that with no shame),

Quote:

“The Flower that Blooms in ADVERSITY is the Most RARE AND BEAUTIFUL FLOWER OF ALL

For that couple in my church, they’ve demonstrated to me the very DEFINITION of “BIBLICAL LOVE/BEAUTY”—-that is, the SACRIFICAL/LONG-TERM LOVE WHEHTERING THROUGH ALL SITUATIONS AND NOT BASED ON SITUATIONS, in the position they’re in……and I don’t think that it would’ve been as clear to me to see what Biblical love is if their circumstance was different and GOD HEALED HER OFF THE BAT:

Quote:

Ephesians 5:21-35

21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Wives and Husbands

22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31″For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[b] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Now honest question: For those who have ever held to the doctrine that ALL SICKNESS/SUFFERING is NEVER APPROPIATE for the CHRISTIAN TO GO THROUGH and that GOD’S WORD PROMISES THAT if YOU had faith YOU would be healed of illness REGARDLESS, DOES IT NOT SEEM THAT SUCH A MENTALITY WOULD BE AN INSULT TO THE IDEA OF TRUE LOVE/COMMITMENT from a Biblical Standpoint?

Would it not seem to be BELITTING what couples , such as the ELDERS in my church, have gone through and WORKED HARD TO DEVELOP if one were to tell them “You didn’t have to got through that if you just believed….” or “Stop doubting God and claim your claiming NOW!!!!!And if not, WHY?” or “Ya’ll are displeasing God by not believing to be healed and settling for life on that level”?……….And for those who disagree, why is this not the case?

Would it be dishonarable for a husband to hold to the belief that God always will heal if he has faith if his desire for doing so would be for the purpose of hoping that his wife would be as attractive again as she was before a dehibilating disease, disability or illness of some sort?

Is it always a BAD THING for couples to have to deal with ILNESSES/DISABILITIES even when it is BEING USED to show others on the outside of it what it means to truly love someone REGARDLESS of where they’re at……or how God orchestrates for many things to take place that’ll reflect Him/His Glory somehow better than if circumstances were ideal?”

Basically, the question is asking Is it ALWAYS in the BEST INTEREST of GOD to HEAL SOMEONE…….AND though he has the power to do so and does so often, DOES IT ALWAYS REFLECT GOOD ON HIM in regards to LOVE/RELATIONSHIPS TO DO SO?

LOVE TO HAVE FEEDBACK……..and for anyone who get involved in the discussion, I HIGHLY SUGGEST INVESTIGATING SOME OF LINKS I’ve provided on the issue of TRUE LOVE/COMMITMENT BEFORE CHoosing to Comment:

All of these links deal with the issue of BIBLICAL RELATIONSHIPS, what it truly means to love someone and how attraction should look like prior to and after marriage……….and for those who are willing to investigate them, I think that it may help to adress the issue of how “GOD ALWAYS WILLS TO HEAL AND must do so if you have faith” OR that “ALL SUFFERING IS ALWAYS WRONG” may negatively affect one’s view of RELATIONSHIPS.

Personally, though I believe suffering/sickness to be the result of living in a fallen world where things are not always IDEAL and where good behavior is not always rewared and bad behavior is not always punished (as it was undoubtely thought of in the minds of the couple when they probably wondered why they served the Lord and yet fell prey to the circumstances they were handed while others not serving the Lord seem just fine and nothing is happening to them)………and though I also believe that God heals/desires to do so still today for those who do ask in faith/for His glory, I also believe that if God took all suffering away and ALWAYS WILLED IT here and there or healed us when WE WANTED IT in this life N’ whenever we asked, WE would follow Him for COMFORT and CONVIENCE rather than out of LOVE/DEVOTION…….

And that regardless of the reasons for our suffering, JESUS HAS THE POWER TO HELP US THROUGH IT, whether it be if HE heals us on the spot OR HEALS it in time (as I have seen often/experienced) or EVEN IN THE CASE THAT WE’RE NEVER HEALED AT ALL.……..

Regardless of the circumstance, God knew about it before it would happen and HE HAS A PURPOSE behind it/working it out for our GOOD.

Quote:

John 9:1-5

John 9
Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind

1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3″Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

And, moreover….

Quote:

Romans 8:28

More Than Conquerors

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[a] who[b] have been called according to his purpose.

According to my study Bible, by the way, “God works in “ALL THINGS”—not just isolated incidents—for our good. THIS DOES NOT MEAN that all that happens to us IS GOOD. Evil is prevelant in our fallen world, but God is able to turn every circumstance around for our long-range good. Note that GOD IS NOT WORKING TO MAKE US HAPPY, but to FUFILL HIS PURPOSE……..

Those who are “called” are those the Holy Spirit convinces and enables to recieve Christ. Such people have a new perspective, a new mind-set on life. They trust in God, not life’s treasures; they look for their security in HEAVEN, not on EARTH; they learn to accept, not RESENT PAIN and PERSECUTION because God is with them


AND WHEN WE SUFFER FROM A DISABILITY, DISEASE OR A TRAGEDY, we should try not to ask “Why did this happen to me?” or “WHAT DID I DO WRONG”…..and rather should be asking God to give us the strength for the trial and a clearer perspective on what’s happening and how it could possibly honor the Lord…

That’s what the couple in our church did, as well as COUNTLESS OTHERS, and truly the KINDGOM OF GOD and GOD’S BEAUTY, POWER/GRACE AT WORK (II Corinthians 11:16-33, II Corinthians 12:1-10) was seen more clearly than it possibly ever could BE SEEN IN THE “IDEAL”

one STILL has to wonder how far one could possibly go with this IN DEMONSTRATING TRUE LOVE and BEING A LIVING METAPHOR OF CHRISTS’ LOVE FOR THE CHURCH when the very idea may be based on the mentality that many people are exposed to in WOF—-that ONE IS DISPLEASING THE LORD if one is under some sort of illness/disability and that person becomes either becomes content with that and no longer asking to be healed or tries to look for the good in the situation/how they can glorify God in it, as opposed to “Naming/CLAIMING” a healing/victory or saying “No, I’m not parlyzed” and believing that enough positive confession will deliver them rather than acknowledging the circumstances for what they are/making peace with that…..or even saying things like “If God doesn’t heal me, then He really isn’t worth being God since God’s Word says He HEALS” and being more focused on the act of God healing you rather than on HOW GOD CAN WORK THROUGH YOU/THE SITUATION YOUR IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE…..and how we can REFLECT HIS CHARACTER! REGARDLES OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES….!!

My friend from Ireland has lyme disease….& she used to be  in a WOF Fellowship. In her own words: “I have Lyme’s disease, diagnosed late, which has been kept at bay with 10 years of antibiotics. Have I enjoyed having Lyme’s? NO! . But I would not have been without it, because through it I have learnt depths of power, provision and sweetness in my Lord that I could never have learned had I not needed Him so much.

In Eden there was no suffering. If He had His way we would all be still in Eden. But since the world is now fallen and that includes illness, once it is given to Him He can transform it into a ‘severe mercy’.

If someone preached to me the benefits of suffering I’d bop them on the head – but I, as the ill person in question, can say it, because it’s true.

Imagine the pain of someone in a strict WOF fellowship with chronic illness slowly marginalised and rebuked because they have not been healed. God indeed does heal, but in His way, at His time, according to His will, and according to the very particular spiritual needs of each of His children. He does not cause it, nor is it His will, which is the other extremity of viewpoint. But He can transform it. It is still a royal pain in the behind and I so look forward to the day when we are all free of it, when He will wipe every tear away.

     Hearing that, I couldn’t help but think of how powerful that was.   think it’s STUNNING and nothing short of INSPIRING/ARRESTING to see the kind of person she is & how she hadchosen to take the PAIN and turn it into POWER!!!!

And regarding her  second point, how true on the power of God’s TRANSFORMING MERCY and how SEVERELY IT CAN TRANSFORM ANY SITUATION for those CHOSEN BY/LIVING FOR HIM!! But of course…..that what the Lord JESUS WAS ANOINTED to DO, as He said of Himself regarding the Scripture adressed to Him when He began His PUBLIC MINISTRY (Luke 4:16-21)
Isaiah 61

The Year of the LORD’s Favor

1 The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,
because the LORD has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoners, [a]

2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,

3 and provide for those who grieve in Zion—
to bestow on them a crown of beauty
instead of ashes,
the oil of gladness
instead of mourning,
and a garment of praise
instead of a spirit of despair.
They will be called oaks of righteousness,
a planting of the LORD
for the display of his splendor.

4 They will rebuild the ancient ruins
and restore the places long devastated;
they will renew the ruined cities
that have been devastated for generations.

5 Aliens will shepherd your flocks;
foreigners will work your fields and vineyards.
6 And you will be called priests of the LORD,
you will be named ministers of our God.
You will feed on the wealth of nations,
and in their riches you will boast.

7 Instead of their shame
my people will receive a double portion,
and instead of disgrace
they will rejoice in their inheritance;
and so they will inherit a double portion in their land,
and everlasting joy will be theirs.

8 “For I, the LORD, love justice;
I hate robbery and iniquity.
In my faithfulness I will reward them
and make an everlasting covenant with them.

9 Their descendants will be known among the nations
and their offspring among the peoples.
All who see them will acknowledge
that they are a people the LORD has blessed.”

10 I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God.
For he has clothed me with garments of salvation
and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness,
as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest,
and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
11 For as the soil makes the sprout come up
and a garden causes seeds to grow,
so the Sovereign LORD will make righteousness and praise
spring up before all nations.

Regarding her point on how there was no suffering in EDEN and if God wanted, we’d be right back there in the “IDEAL”, alongside the statement of how God is still able to TRANSFORM EVERY MISTAKE into a MASTERPIECE……and regarding your statements of Strict WOF Churches can cause much damage by rebuking/ailenating those with chronic illness because they have not been healed and achieved the ideal, despite the fact that as she said,

Quote:

God indeed does heal, but in His way, at His time, according to His will, and according to the very particular spiritual needs of each of His children. He does not cause it, nor it is not His will, which is the other extremity of viewpoint. But He can transform it

I cannot think of a better Springboard for the TOPIC at hand.

In her own situation, though she was in pain, she chose to rely on the Lord and make something BEAUTIFUL out of it REGARDLESS, as seen in the way she handled herself and still do (as well as the fact that she’s  married and her HUSBAND most likely STILL ADORES her and BEAUTIFIES her DESPITE HOW her CONDITION may or may not make her  attractive to Him at times OR may be difficult to deal with).

In saying that, I find it ironic she  said that if it were up to God He’d have us back in EDEN since the very thing ADAM and EVE did in PRINCIPLE when everything was IDEAL was EXACTLY what she’s been doing: ADDING BEAUTY/MAKING MORE WORTHWILE THE THINGS WHICH ARE ALREADY IN EXISTENCE FOR GOD’S GLORY and handling oneself in a way that would REFLECT HIM!!!!

Likewise, I FIND IT VERY IRONIC for many within WOF who advocate that PERFECTION HAPPEN IN HERE AND NOW (which is Unbiblical since In Heaven, there will be no more pain, sickness, disease, suffering, or death (Revelation chapter 21/http://www.gotquestions.org/healing-Bible.html ). ..) and claim that one should be seeking to essentially live in a state free from SUFFERING/SICKNESS and that one should not have to deal with/make the most out of it…….basically trying to go back to the way things were in EDEN when EVERYTHING SEEMED PERFECT, despite the fact that STRUGGLES WERE GOING TO BE FOUND BACK THEN as WELL,,,,,AND THAT GOD, again, STILL COMISSIONED ADAM AND EVE TO MAKE THE MOST OF THINGS AND IMPROVE ON THINGS beyond what they ALREADY WERE.

If they really wanted to go back to how things were AND follow godly principles, then there would perhaps not be so much discussion on BEING IN COMPLETE PERFECTION/WITHOUT ANY STRUGGLES or IMPERFECTIONS/WORK to HANDLE IN DEALING WITH THEM, but rather trying to see the GOOD IN WHERE ONE IS AT and MAKING IT BETTER IN WHATEVER WAY THEY CAN, basing their admiration off of that rather than HOW PLEASANT/PLEASING TO THE EYE THINGS MAY BE and under the HOPE THAT NO ALTERATIONS IN LIFE HAPPEN……and for that matter, SIMPLY ADMIRING THINGS AND PRAISING THEM WHEN THEY’RE PERFECT but CONDEMING THOSE WHO ARE IN LESS THAN IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES and SEEM TO CONSTANTLY BE THERE but STILL THRIVE/SEEK TO PLEASE THE LORD HOWEVER THEY CAN!

If this is not making sense, my bad….but I think that this excerpt from an article I read should help to make more sense AS TO WHAT I’M TRYING TO GET AT:

Quote:

Fundamental to the Christian concept of beauty is that beauty is not so much passively found and appreciated as it is actively created and cherished. Genesis 1 tells us that when God created the world, He created it good. That word includes the idea of beautiful. Trees, for example, were both “pleasant to the sight and good for food” (Genesis 2:9).

So God’s creation wasn’t merely functional, it was (and in many ways still is) beautiful! Why would God build beauty into creation and give us the ability to recognize it? Perhaps so that we would be attracted to it, and so care for it well as stewards. Ultimately God wanted his creation to be a reflection of his own beauty (glory); He wants us to be attracted to Him!
But there’s more. Genesis 1 also tells us that God created us in his image.

Among other things, that means he gave us the ability to not only appreciate His beautiful world, but to make things beautiful as well. Not just ability. Responsibility. In Genesis 2, Adam was commanded to make the Garden of Eden flourish and grow. Let that sink in for a minute. In the middle of a perfect world, Adam was responsible for the expansion of Paradise. Far from being the passive critic and consumer of God’s beautiful world, he was in the business of actively growing that beauty and even creating more. He didn’t have to come up with perfection. He was in charge of developing it!

There’s more we need to say about our experience of beauty and attraction now that we’re no longer in Eden.

http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001523.cfm

Quote:

We shouldn’t be surprised that attraction has such power over us. God designed us that way. He didn’t want us to merely know the truth and do what was right. He wanted us to love the truth; He wanted us to be powerfully attracted to the good. Ultimately, He made us to love and be attracted to the most beautiful person in the universe — Him! So He created beauty in this world, not as an end in itself for our selfish pleasure, but as a means to the end of our ultimate pleasure in Him (Psalm 16:11).

……. the Bible describes Jesus as a groom who came the first time to win His bride, the Church, and who will come a second time to take her home to be with Him forever (see Mat. 25:1-13, John 3:29-30; Rev. 21-22).

No one in his right mind ever marries a woman he doesn’t find beautiful. And it’s no different with Jesus. Except for one problem. We aren’t attractive. In our sin and rebellion, we are downright ugly. So what’s up with Jesus?

I said earlier that Adam started off as a developer, making the beauty of Paradise flourish and grow. Adam failed, and we’ll think more about what that means next time. But where Adam failed, Jesus succeeded. Only this second Adam had a much more difficult job. Not expanding perfection, but cleansing the dirty, forgiving the guilty, and making the ugly beautiful again.

Paul tells us that like a husband, “Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless” (Ephesians 5:25-27)

Think about what that means. Jesus didn’t come to earth looking for a beautiful bride, going back to heaven disappointed because no one lived up to His standards. No, He worked actively creating beauty through His death on the cross and the power of the gospel. He gave His life so that whoever repents of their sin and puts their faith in His finished work on the cross might become part of His dazzlingly beautiful bride! It’s a promise He made and it’s a promise He will keep.

As Christian men we can’t do what Christ did, nor do we need to. But we are called to be like Him. That means we need to stop being beauty critics and get busy creating, honoring, and guarding real beauty in the women around us. How do we do that? We do it by appreciating women who resemble Christ more than a Vogue model. We do it by encouraging modesty rather than sexiness. We do it by extending grace to imperfect bodies and flawed personalities. We do it by rejecting the worldly values of beauty that lead women to starve themselves or spend a small fortune on clothes.

Whether you like it or not, whether you know it or not, you are a creator of beauty in the women around you. ………

What promise of beauty are you making and who will keep it? Too many men are promising, “I’ll be attracted to you if you’re a size 2,” and then waiting for the woman who will work hard to meet the condition. Jesus calls us to make a different kind of promise. “I’m attracted to you because of how much of Christ I already see in you and I promise to work hard to see even more of Christ in you.”

http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001523.cfm)

Hope that clarifies things as to what I was trying to get across. As the Author pointedly made clear, WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE CALLED BY THE LORD TO DEVELOP BEAUTY…….and for couples within some WOF churches who base their attractions off of whether or not things are “IDEAL” and feel as if they are not OBLIGATED to deal with things when sufferings/tragedies or ALTERACTIONS of some sort OCCUR (LIKE THE COUPLE from Earlier who was CRIPPLED) and cry out to God to HEAL THEM but never choose to acknowledge the situation for what it is (i.e. As seen often, choosing to try and deny the reality of the situation one is in by saying things like “I’M NOT SICK” or “I’m Not PARLYZED” instead of adressing the situation is real but there’s nothing wrong with it and God), can be GLORIFIED in IT), I honesty wonder whether or not God is truly being REFLECTED AS MUCH AS HE POSSIBLY COULD IF THEY DID OTHERWISE.

And on a BROADER SCALE, as it is in COUPLES in General, it may be negative to base one’s mentality of CONENTMENT/PEACE AND SATISFACTION ON WHETHER ONE IS ATTRACTED TO HIS OR HER CIRCUMSTANCES that GOD ALLOWS TO HAPPEN ratherer than on CHARACTER OF GOD THAT CAN SEEN CONSTANTLY WITHIN THEM IF THEY LOOK and how one CAN EXPAND ON WHAT GOD HAS ALREADY DONE SO THAT THINGS SEEM EVEN MORE BEAUTIFUL than they currently might be.

If I’m satisfied with God and “ATTRACTED” to remaining COMMITTED to Him under the Belief that things should ALWAYS BE PERFECTION/WITHOUT SUFFERING WITHOUT PAUSE or 24/7, HOW STRONG AND OF ETERNAL VALUE IS MY ATTRACTION BE…..AND HOW MUCH CAN I HONESTLY DEVELOP THAT ATTRACTION/LOVE INTO SOMETHING DEEPER FOR HIM THAT WOULD HONOR HIM?

Or on the flip side of being “FAIR WEATHER CHRISTIANS (which to note is not something that happens SOLEY WITHIN WOF, in case I’m inadvertantly coming off that way to others like I’m saying that), what would stop a PERSON from becoming embittered at God/falling away from HIM if they entered into a RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM but were told that HE HAD A WONDERFUL PLAN FOR THEIR LIVES that involved no PAIN/POSSIBLE SUFFERINGS AND TRAGEDIES, and that Christian wholeheartedly gave themselves to following the LORD ON THAT BASIS ONLY TO BE HEART-BROKEN when things turned out DIFFERENTLY, AND POSSIBLY ASSUMING THAT GOD HAD LIED TO THEM because of what they were told that HE SAID WAS THE PROOF OF A STRONG RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM AND HIS LOVE TO NOT BE IN SICKNESS/SUFERING, WHEN IN TRUTH THEY’D BE BELIEVING A LIE THEMSELVES ?

Quote:

Fundamental to the Christian concept of beauty is that beauty is not so much passively found and appreciated as it is actively created and cherished. Genesis 1 tells us that when God created the world, He created it good. That word includes the idea of beautiful. Trees, for example, were both “pleasant to the sight and good for food” (Genesis 2:9).

So God’s creation wasn’t merely functional, it was (and in many ways still is) beautiful! Why would God build beauty into creation and give us the ability to recognize it? Perhaps so that we would be attracted to it, and so care for it well as stewards. Ultimately God wanted his creation to be a reflection of his own beauty (glory); He wants us to be attracted to Him!
But there’s more. Genesis 1 also tells us that God created us in his image.

Among other things, that means he gave us the ability to not only appreciate His beautiful world, but to make things beautiful as well. Not just ability. Responsibility. In Genesis 2, Adam was commanded to make the Garden of Eden flourish and grow. Let that sink in for a minute. In the middle of a perfect world, Adam was responsible for the expansion of Paradise. Far from being the passive critic and consumer of God’s beautiful world, he was in the business of actively growing that beauty and even creating more. He didn’t have to come up with perfection. He was in charge of developing it!

There’s more we need to say about our experience of beauty and attraction now that we’re no longer in Eden.

http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001523.cfm

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37 Responses to “GOD ALWAYS HEALS n’ MUST if you have FAITH”: An WOF idea bad 4 developing TRUE LOVE/MARRIAGE?”

  1. You might consider doing these in pieces instead of all at once. It was overwhelming.

  2. harry said

    True love is totally awesome!!! Through sickness and in health. He was dead serious when He took those vows.

    harry

  3. Double-G (G²) said

    Dead serious is an understatement, Brah ……..the man was simply in Love and LOVING IT!!!!!

  4. sos22 said

    ‘Love is not love that alters when alteration finds,
    No, it is an ever fixed point…that looks on tempests and is not moved’. Shakespeare

    True love – in the man you describe, and in the wife who allows herself to receive such love and then returns it. They are a living metaphor of Christ’s love for His church. That’s what marriage was meant to be.

  5. Double G (G2) said

    Amen………..but one STILL has to wonder how far one could possibly go with this IN DEMONSTRATING TRUE LOVE and BEING A LIVING METAPHOR OF CHRISTS’ LOVE FOR THE CHURCH when the very idea may be based on the mentality that many people are exposed to in WOF—-that ONE IS DISPLEASING THE LORD if one is under some sort of illness/disability and that person becomes either becomes content with that and no longer asking to be healed or tries to look for the good in the situation/how they can glorify God in it, as opposed to “Naming/CLAIMING” a healing/victory or saying “No, I’m not parlyzed” and believing that enough positive confession will deliver them rather than acknowledging the circumstances for what they are/making peace with that…..or even saying things like “If God doesn’t heal me, then He really isn’t worth being God since God’s Word says He HEALS” and being more focused on the act of God healing you rather than on HOW GOD CAN WORK THROUGH YOU/THE SITUATION YOUR IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE…..and how we can REFLECT HIS CHARACTER! REGARDLES OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES….!!

  6. Double-G (G2) said

    Again, any thoughts on the issue? Or was the thread written in vain (being over-dramatic, of course)

  7. Bob Carabbio said

    I was recalling Tony – who HAD BEEN a VERY good banjo player – once. You could tell by the way he handled the thing – he was friends with every fret position up and down the neck. HE’s dead now, of course, but before He did that, he used to play in the jams down in Lewisville, TX in the gas company meeting room.

    He was in a wheel chair, and about as crippled by arthritus as you can get. His wife would push him in, get him out of the wheel chair and into a normal chair, and then she’d unpack his old Whyte Laydie Banjo, and set it in his lap, and get his picks on. And they’d sing their love song to each other in duet – and the rest of us would just listen. You don’t mess with anything that neat.

    He’d play instrumentals, and you could tell that if it were 20 years ago, he’d clean our clocks with his artistry, but his hands just didn’t work anymore, and you could see the frustration on his face – and the love on hers – Like she still heard it like it used to be in a different time.

    Love is where you find it, and doesn’t die in adversity.

    They were Lutherin as I recall – doesn’t really matter.

    But the bottom line is that when one HAS received healing by faith, then it’s real – whether or not It’s manifested yet. God WILL always heal when He gives faith for healing.

    And when one DOESN’T know that healing is there – there’s no faith basis to claim it on. Simple as that.

    Toxic WoF says that it’s YOUR responsibility to “whomp up faith” so you can get healed/Heal your family. But faith doesn’t “Whomp”. It’s either there or it ISN’T – period.
    And if it isn’t there’s ABSOLUTELY nothing you can do to get it – like the Foolish and wise virgins.

    On the wonderful/terrible day, they all got up and did the “natural thing” the foolish ones proceeded foolishly, and the wise ones proceeded wisely. And in the crunch, the die was already cast – but the preparations for success/failure had been in process for YEARS.

    A life of faith has either been developed over time, or it hasn’t. It’s never too late to start, but it ain’t happen’in tomorrow.

    And sometimes, since GOd has his OWN agenda for our lives faith for specific things ain’t happen’in – PERIOD. HE is sovereign after all. I can live with that.

    My wife would really like to go to bed knowing that there wouldn’t be a 911 call in the wee hours for the emergency wagon to haul me off like they have on the average of almost once a year since ever since ’92. SHE knows that one of these times, I won’t be coming back.

    I’ve got the easy part – a few minutes of intense pain, and then I’ll find out first hand what happens – after.

    She won’t be so fortunate that way. The pastor, and the church will help, of course, but there’s still the remenants of 42 years of marriage to deal with, the house, and all the “stuff” – precious, but worthless financially. No more paychecks, no insurance, not too much in savings. THAT’s where the issues are. Fortunately God WILL make a way where there seems to be no way.

  8. sos22 said

    I loved reading your post Bob – I just ‘saw’ everything you were describing in my mind’s eye as I read, even your accent .

    I think that God gives faith if He is going to heal. I pray over the phone most days with a friend and people who have got to know that, gives us situations to pray for. Over the years we’ve lost count of the times we felt led to pray for physical healing and the Lord has granted it, and also, the times where we were led to only pray for spiritual healing, or emotional healing, or that the Lord draw the sick person closer to Him through the illness.

    I have Lyme’s disease, diagnosed late, which has been kept at bay with 10 years of antibiotics. Have I enjoyed having Lyme’s? NO! . But I would not have been without it, because through it I have learnt depths of power, provision and sweetness in my Lord that I could never have learned had I not needed Him so much.

    In Eden there was no suffering. If He had His way we would all be still in Eden. But since the world is now fallen and that includes illness, once it is given to Him He can transform it into a ‘severe mercy’.

    If someone preached to me the benefits of suffering I’d bop them on the head – but I, as the ill person in question, can say it, because it’s true.

    Imagine the pain of someone in a strict WOF fellowship with chronic illness slowly marginalised and rebuked because they have not been healed. God indeed does heal, but in His way, at His time, according to His will, and according to the very particular spiritual needs of each of His children. He does not cause it, nor is it His will, which is the other extremity of viewpoint. But He can transform it. It is still a royal pain in the behind and I so look forward to the day when we are all free of it, when He will wipe every tear away.

  9. Double-G (G2) said

    WOW…..(Comments to come much later, but VERY SOON)…..

    Peace………

  10. Double-G (G2) said

    Is PERFECTION THE IDEAL TO GO AFTER, or IS IT PERFECTING/MAKING IT BETTER Constantly?

    My apologies/sincere regrets for your having LYME DISEASE, SOS22. I never knew in the slightest, probably due to how you never discuss it often and because of how radiant you are in your demeanor…..but even though you have had to endure through it, I think it’s STUNNING and nothing short of INSPIRING/ARRESTING to see the kind of person you are and how you’ve chosen to take the PAIN and turn it into POWER!!!!

    And regarding your second point, how true on the power of God’s TRANSFORMING MERCY and how SEVERELY IT CAN TRANSFORM ANY SITUATION for those CHOSEN BY/LIVING FOR HIM!! But of course…..that what the Lord JESUS WAS ANOINTED to DO, as He said of Himself regarding the Scripture adressed to Him when He began His PUBLIC MINISTRY (Luke 4:16-21)

  11. Double-G (G2) said

    Quote:
    Bob Carabbio: But the bottom line is that when one HAS received healing by faith, then it’s real – whether or not It’s manifested yet. God WILL always heal when He gives faith for healing.

    Quote:
    Sos22: I think that God gives faith if He is going to heal. I pray over the phone most days with a friend and people who have got to know that, gives us situations to pray for. Over the years we’ve lost count of the times we felt led to pray for physical healing and the Lord has granted it, and also, the times where we were led to only pray for spiritual healing, or emotional healing, or that the Lord draw the sick person closer to Him through the illness.

    In light of both of these comments (which are well-appreciated, by the way ), I thought I post some things relating to the issue of praying for the sick/injured, as well as thoughts on what the WORD SAYS ABOUT FAITH and, specifically, the GIFT OF FAITH when it comes to healing…..epecially in light of the fact that the situation I raised regarding the disabled lady ties in directly with that (though, on a side note, by no means meaning she has let that be a disabilty to her WALK WITH CHRIST)

    The information I’m sharing comes from one of the books I studied when I WENT ON MY RECENT MISSION TRIP TO MEXICO LAST JUNE (the place, by the way, where we witnessed many amazing miracles/.healings also to the GLORY OF GOD!!! and got to experience what it truly means to pray for the sick and combines a solid biblical foundatio and practical advice with first-hand illustrations of how healing, as well as other spiritual giftings, would be practically applied in today’s society

    The book is entitled A Beginners Guide to SPIRITUAL GIFTS, and it’s by SAM STORMS, who used to be a cessastionist and later came to believe in Spiritual Gifts and how healing is for today. He’s also a CALVANIST CHARISMATIC, or rather a REFORMED CHARISMATIC like myself who has been on both sides of the fence when it comes to studying the issues of HEALING/FAITH so we can relate (though of course he’ll never know that since I’VE NEVER MET HIM)

    Here it is….and hope everyone enjoys:

    Quote:
    Although the NT has much more to say about faith in general, it doesn’t explicitly refer to the charisma, or gift of faith outside this passage in I Corinthians 12.

    Therefore, the best way to identify and define the nature of this gift is to look briefly at how faith is potrayed elsewhere. Generally speaking, the NT mentions three kinds of fiath, or, better still, three distinct contexts or circumstances in which faith is exercised….CONVERSION FAITH, CONTINUING FAITH AND CHARISMATIC FAITH.

    CONVERSION FAITH is the faith through which we are justified. This is the faith identified in Scripture as that trust or confidence or belief in the atoning sacrifice of Christ that occurs at the moment of converion This s the faith Paul referred to in Ephesians 2:8-9…..(also see Romans 1:16-17, Romans 3:28, Romans 5:1, etc). Unlike the charisma of faith, which is restricted to those believers to whom the Spirit wills to give it (I Corinthians 12:11)

    CONTINUING FAITH is the faith we exercise daily as we look confidently to God to do in and through our lives all that he has promised to do. This is the faith that is one of the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22). This is the faith of Hebrews 11 (compare with I Peter 1:8 and others). All believers have this faith, but in varying degrees of intensity. Some are more and others less confident in the goodness and greatness of God throughout the course of daily life.

    CHARISMATIC FAITH is the faith, noted in several texts, that appears to be spotaneous and functions as the divinly enabled condition on which the more overtly supernatural activities of God are suspended. This, I believe, is the “gift of faith” in I Corinthians 12:9.

    Consider these POSSIBLE EXAMPLES of the gift of faith:

    Quote:
    Mark 11:22-24

    22″Have[a] faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23″I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. 24Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. (Matthew 17:20-21, Matthew 21:21-22)

    Quote:
    I Corinthians 13:2

    2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

    Quote:

    James 5:15

    15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

    Charismatic faith, or the gift of faith, like the other charismata, is not given to every member of the body of Christ. However, it would appear that any member of the body of Christ is a potential candidate for the experience of this manifestation of the Spirit. The gift of faith should probably be regarded, more so than most other gifts of the Spirit, as occasional or spontaneous rather than pernament or residential.

    This is a special faith that “enables a believer to trust God to bring about certain things for which he or she cannot claim some divine promise recorded in Scripture, or some state of affairs grounded in the very structure of the Gospel.” In other words, it is the God-Given ability, without fakery or platitudnous exhortations, to believe what you do not really believe, to trust God for a certain blessing not promised in SCRIPTURE.

    The gift of faith is that mysterious surge of confidence that rises within a person in a paticular situation of need or challenge and which gives an extra-ordinary certainty and assurance that God is about to act through a word or an action.

    I believe that there is a close connection between gifts of healings (AS well as the gift of miracles) and the gift of faith, which immediately procedes them in Paul’s list of the charismata.

    The role of faith in healing is CRUCIAL AND IT IS MANIFEST IN A NUMBER OF WAYS.

    On occasion the faith of the person needing healing is instrumental (Matthew 9:22); while at other times it is the faith of a friend or family member (Matthew 15:28; Mark 2:2-12).

    Sometimes the focus of faith is on the faith of the person praying for the one who needs healing (Mark 9:17-24), and on certain occasions, faith apparently plays no part AT ALL IN THE HEALING ( John 5:1-9; indeed, in the Gospel of John, faith is never mentioned as a condition for healing; see also Matthew 8:14-17, and, from G2, especially John 9).

    The point is that on some occasions, GOD SIMPLY HEALS BY A SOVEREIGN ACT OF HIS WILL UNRELATED TO ANYTHING IN US.

    However, in the vast majority of cases, Jesus healed people because of someone’s faith.

    In the case of both Jairus and the woman suffering from bleeding (Mark 5), faith was directed toward Jesus as an expression of need. Again, in Luke 17:11-19, Jesus healed ten lepers. When one returned to say thanks, JESUS said: “Your faith has made you well” (Luke 17:19). When Bartimaeus asked Jesus to heal him of his blindness, Jesus said: “Go, your faith has healed you.” (Mark 10:52). In the famous story of the paralytic being lowered through the roof, Jesus healed him when he saw that the man’s friends had FAITH (Mark 2:5)

    The author then procedded to go on and describe how he believed that faith for healing operates at any one of five levels (and though there was more information on each of them, I didn’t have room or time, but I’ll give more info if ya’ll like), first of which being:
    Faith that God is your sole source for blessing, that he is your hope and he alone (Psalm 33:18-22, Psalm 147:10-11).
    Faith in God’s Ability to heal (Matthew 9:28-29, Matthew 8:1-5, Mark 5:34)

    Faith in God’s heart for healing, and in God’s Goodness and His desire to bless His Children (Psalm 103, Luke 11:11-13),, the faith or belief or confidence that it’s God’s character to build up, not tear down to bring unity and not disvision, and to create wholeness and complteness and not disintergration and disarray

    Faith not simply that God can heal, not simply that God delights to heal, but FAITH THAT GOD DOES HEAL….faith that healing is part of God’s purpose and plan for his people today

    And finally, Faith that it is His Will to HEAL RIGHT NOW.

    Continuing from that point,

    Quote:
    I have in mind the pyschological certainty that healing is what God is, in fact, going to do now. This is probably more of what Paul had in mind when he spoke of the gift of faith in I Corinthians 12:9. It may also be what James referred to as “the prayer offered in faith” (James 5:15)

    The prayer offered in faith isn’t one that we pray whenever we want to. It is a unique prayer, divinely energized only on those occasions when it is God’s sovereign purpose to impart a gift for healing. James was careful to place the definite article (translated the ) before both prayer and faith (hence, “the prayer of the faith”). One prays this prayer only when prompted by the Spirit wrought conviction that God intends to heal the one for whom the prayer is being offered. This is more than merely believing that God is able to heal; this appears to be faith that HE, in this paticular case, is not only willing to heal, but willing to heal RIGHT NOW.

    God sovereignly bestows this faith necessary for healing only when he wills. When God chooses to heal, He produces in the heart(s) of those praying the faith or confidence that healing is precisely his intent. The paticular kind of faith to which James refers, in response to which God heals, is not the kind that we may exercise at our will. It is the kind of faith that we exercise only when God wills.

    One Sunday afternoon, a couple came to me before the service and asked that the elders of our church anoint their infant son and pray for his healing. After the service we gathered in the back room and I anointed him with oil. I don’t recall the precise medical name for his condition, but at six months of age he had a serious liver disorder that could require immediate surgery if something didn’t change.

    As we prayed, something very unusual happened. As we laid hands on this young child, I found myself suddenly filled wth an over-whelming and inescapable confidence that he would be healed. It was totally unexpeted. Not wanting to be presumptous, I tried to doubt but couldn’
    t. I prayed confidently, filled with a faith unshakeable and undeniable. I said silently to God, “Lord, you are really going to heal him.”

    Although the family left the room unsure, I was absolutely certain God had healed him. The next morning the doctor agreed, for he was totally HEALED….. and is a healthy, happy, young boy today.

    If this were an example of the gift of faith working in conjunction with the gift of healing, there is no reason to think that had I prayed for another afflicated infant boy that day he would necessarily have been healed. The fact that I recieved a gift for healing on this one occasion did not GUARANTEE that I could pray with equal success on some other occasion

    ——————————————————————————–

    Continued from Previous Post….

    Quote:

    We should take careful note of the example of Elijah (see James 5:17-18)…..the point of verses 17-18 is to counter the argument that ELIJAH was somehow unique (i.e. that Elijah or Elisha, for example were special, extraordinary, unique individuals who cannot serve as models for us when we pray) or that because of the period in which he lived he could pray with miraculous success but we cannot.

    James wanted readers to know that Elijah was just like you and me. He was a human being with weaknesses, fears, doubts, failures—-no less than we. In other words, James said “Don’t let anyone tell you Elijah was in a class by Himself. He wasn’t, for he was just like you. You are just like him. Therefore pray like he did!!”

    Don’t forget the context: James appealed to the example of Elijah to encourage us when we pray for the SICK!! The point is that we should pray for the miraculous healing with the same faith and expectation with which Elijah prayed for the end of a three-year drought.

    This brings us back to my earlier asserrtion that there is no such thing as a gift of healing. There is no such thing as a gift of healing. I said this both because of the way Paul described this spiritual phenomenon and the misconception surrounding it. The significant thing about I Corinthians 12:9, I Corinthians 12:28 is that both gift and healing are plural and lack the definate article, hence the translation: “Gifts of healings.” Evidently Paul did not envision that a person would be endowned with one healing gift operative at ALL times for ALL DISEASES. His language suggests either nmany different gifts or powers of healing, each appropiate to and effective for it’s related illness, or each occurence of healing constituting a distinct gift in it’s own right.

    I’ve had the opportunity on numerous occasions to meet people who have what appears to be a healing anointing for one paticular afflication. Some are able to pray more effectively for those with back problems while others see more success when praying for migraine headaches. This may be what Paul had in mind when he spoke of “gifts of healings”

    One of the principal obstacles to a proper understanding of healing is the erroneous assumption that if anyone could ever heal, he could always heal. But in view of the lingering illness of Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-30), Timothy (I Timothy 5:23), Trophimus (II Timothy 4:20), and perhaps Paul himself (II Corinthians 12:7-10, Galatians 4:13), it’s better to view this gift as subject to the WILL OF GOD, not the WILL OF PEOPLE.

    Therefore, a person may be gifted to heal MANY PEOPLE, but not all. Another may be gifted to heal only one paticular person of one paticular disease….

    There is no such thing as the gift of healing, especially if it is envisioned as a God-Given ability to heal everyone of every disease on every occasion

    Rather, The Spirit sovereignly distributes a charisma of healing for a particular occasion, even though previous prayers for physical restoration under similar circumstances may not have been answered, and even though subsequent prayers for the same afflication may not be answered. In sum, gifts of healings” are occasional and subject to the Sovereign Purposes of God

    Few doubt that Paul had a gift of healing, but his prayers for Epaphroditus weren’t answered, at least not at first (Philippians 2:25-30). Clearly, Paul could not heal (note from G2: or for that matter, DEMAND HEALING) at will. Aside from Jesus, no one else could either! And there is no doubt if even Jesus could (John 5:19, Mark 6:5-6). Some would conclude from Pauls FAILURE to heal his friend that the gift of healing was dying out at this juncture in the life of the church.(in spite of the fact that late in his ministry, in Acts 28:9, Paul healed everyone on the island of MALTA who came to him).

    It seems better to conclude that healing, whenever and wherever it occured, was subject not to the will of man, but to the will of God. No one, not even Paul, could always heal all diseases. Paul understood the occasional nature of gifts of healings…..

    The fact that healing is an expressin of divine mercy Philippians 2:27) means that it should NEVER be viewed as a RIGHT. Healing is not the PAYMENT OF A DEBT….AND GOD DOES NOT OWE US HEALING. WE DON’T DESERVE HEALING.

    I believe we should have faith for healing. But there is a vast difference between faith in divine mercy and presumption based on an alleged right.

    The Word mercy is the same one used in the gospels to descibe why Jesus healed people while He was on Eathh. God’s motive for healing hasnt’t changed! The primary reason God healed through Jesus prior to Pentecost was because He is a Merciful and Compassionate God. God is no less MERCIFUL, NO LESS COMPASSIONATE, NO LESS CARING WHEN IT COMES TO THE PHYSICAL CONDITION OF HIS PEOPLE AFTER PENTECOST than He was BEFORE PENTECOST…..

    One of reasons some in the Church today DISREGARD healing is because they disregard the physical body. They believe that to focus on the health and well-being of the body (at least to the degree that you would regularly pray for its’ healing….NOTE FROM G2: This is something that those within WOF truly do have right and that we should as Christians be about as well) is misguided. Our attention is to be more spiritual as we focus on the condition of our souls….but this is little more than a modern version of ancient Gnosticism, for among many of the beliefs of ancient Gnosticism was that the physical body is not the creation of God, It was considered evil. They believed the body is a temporary prisonhouse of the soul, from which all of us will be delievered from death.

    Gnostics tended to go to two extremes as a result of this belief. Some were inclined to deprive the body, to punish it, to treat it harshly through ascetic disciplines such as extended fasting and self-flagellation, while others went the opposite extreme by indulging the body in ALL FORMS of sensual pleasure such as promiscuous sex and excessive food and drink.

    The biblical view of the body, on the other hand, is QUITE POSITIVE. God created us as physical beings. We are both material and immaterial (Genesis 2:7). The importance of the body is seen in the fact that our bodies were redeemed by the blood no less than our souls (I Corinthians 6:20). Our bodies are the temple of the HOLY SPIRIT (I Corinthians 6:19). Our bodies are designed “for the Lord” (I Corinthians 6:13). Our bodies are members of Christ himself (I Corinthians 6:15). Our bodies are capable of being sinned against (I Corinthians 6:18). Our bodies are to be used to honor God (I Corinthians 6:20). Our bodies will be resurrected and glorified, and we’l spend eternity as physically glorified beings (Romans 8:11, Romans 8:23, I Corinthians 15:35-49)…..and at the Judgement Seat, we’ll have to give account for what we have done in our bodies.

    There’s no escaping the fact that SPIRITUALITY IS PHYSICAL. Although God is Spirit, HE INDEED created the PHYSICAL, Material World and pronounced it Good (Genesis 1:4-25)….AND WHEN GOD CREATED US IN HIS IMAGE, HE GAVE US BODIES. These truths can be seen nowhere better than in the Biblical emphaisis on “the laying on of hands”, for though on several occasions Jesus healed people with the spoken Word alone….in most instances HE DID SO BY LAYING HIS HANDS ON THEM or by TOUCHING THEM OR BY MAKING PHYSICAL CONTACT. Perhaps the most amazing text if all is Luke 4:40, where it is said that Jesus laid hands on “every one” of those in a VAST MULTITUDE who had come to him for aid. It must have been physically exhausting and time-intensive for him to do so, but Jesus took the opportunity to lay his hands on EVERY PERSON who cmae ot him for prayer.

    Important obsevations that I hope will encourage you to take your hands out of your pockets, fix your faith on the grace and power of God, and pray regularly for the sick…….

    First, HEALTH AND HEALING are always portrayed in Scripture as the BLESSING OF GOD. Nowhere in the Bible does God promise sickness or disease as a blessing for his obediant children. Whereas it is true that God can use sickness to discipline us and instruct us (Psalm 6:2-3, Psalm 6:6-7, Psalm 32:1-7, Psalm 38, Psalm 41:1-4, Psalm 88:1-9, Psalm 88:15-18, Psalm 102:1-5, Psalm 102:8-11, Psalm 119:67, Psalm 119:71-75, etc), sickness in an of itself is never PORTRAYED AS GOOD.

    Secondly, Whereas all sickness is suffering, not all suffering is sickness. Jesus promised that all who followed Him would suffer persecutio, slander, rejection, and oppression. But He never said that about sickness. Nowhere in the Bible are obediant children of God told to EXPECT SICKNESS AND disease as part of their calling in life. Sickness is not a part of the cross we are called to bear (Note from G2: This is the reason why I believe we can pray for others to be healed and see them healed, as I’ve witnessed, for though not all will be healed, HEALING IS AN OPTION and is POSSIBLE FOR ALL BELIEVERS TO EXPERIENCE)

    Thirdly,Contrary to popular thought, SICKNESS AND DISEASE, in and of themselves, DO NOT GLORIFY GOD. Our unwavering faith and loyalty and love for God in spite of sickness and disease do glorify God.

    Fourth, We must leave room for mystery in God’s ways. Some things will always remain unexplained, We can’t always expect to understand why some are sick and others are not, or why some are healed and others are not. But most important of all, the fact that many, perhaps even most, are not healed should never be used to justify our disobediance to God’s Word when it comes to praying for them.

    Fifth, ‘God’s heart is for healing, , not hurting, My working assumption is that God’s heart is for healing unless I’m shown otherwise by divine revelation or death. What this measn in practical terms is that you should continue to pray for the sick until God tells you otherwise or they die!

    Sixth, we must be willing to bear the stigma of perceived failure. We have succedded when we have obeyed the Scriptures to pray for the sick. Whether ot not they are healed rests with God.

    Many in the church today say they believe that God still heals, but they live as functional diests who rarely if ever actually lay hands on the sick and pray with any degree of expectancy. One reason is that they often confuse praying expectantly with praying presumptously.

    Prayer is presumptious when the person claiming healing does so without revelatory warrant or on the unbiblical assumption that God always wills to heal then and there. Then they feel required to account for the absence of healing by appealing either to moral failure or deficiency of faith (usually in the one for whom prayer is offered..)(Note from G2: This is often the case with many in WOF)

    People pray EXPECTANTLY when they humbly petition a merciful God for something they don’t deserve but that he delights to give (Luke 11:9-13)(Matthew 9:27-31, Matthew 20:29-34, Luke 17:13-14). Expectant prayer flows from the recognition that JESUS HEALED PEOPLE because He loved them and felt COMPASSION for them (Matthew 14:13-14, Matthew 20:34, Mark 1:41-42, Luke 7:11-17), a disposition in the heart of God that nothing in Scripture has changed.

    [/quote]

    Hope that any of this aided the discussion a bit.

    Again, I think that it ties in with the theme of the post….and in the case that it doesn’t appear so AUTOMATICALLY, no worries—–I’m WELL ADAPTED AT DISCUSSING AN ISSUE FROM MULTIPLE POINTS AND TAKING TANGETS SEEMINGLY UNRELATED TO THE DISCUSSION AND MAKING THEM TIE IN BACK INTO THE ORIGINAL SUBJECT

    Besides, sometimes TRYING TO REACH the END DESTINATION IMMEDIATELY isn’t nearly as INFORMATIVE/FUN AS THE ALL OF THE SCENERY, BACKROADS, AND SIDE POINTS that can come along the WAY IN GETTING THERE……..but my apologies for those who don’t like the liesurely tours through my mind I’m working on it, so please bear with me in patience and pray for me that I’ll improve as time goes on.

    Blessings, Alright ya’ll? Later………
    __________________

  12. Double-G (G2) said

    For those wanting more information……on “SaM Storms”

    If anyone like the information I posted from the man’s book, here’s his website in case anyone would like to investigate further into anything he has to offer:

    http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/about-sam-storms/

    Peace……

  13. Double-G (G2) said

    Quick Reminder on Soul vs BODY and which comes First..

    To give a quick reminder on some things….
    Quote:
    The Bible does not specifically link physical healing with spiritual healing. Often times people are physically healed when they place their faith in Christ – but this is not always the case. Sometimes it is God’s will to heal, sometimes it is not. The Apostle John gives us the proper perspective: “This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

    that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us – whatever we ask – we know that we have what we asked of Him” (1 John 5:14-15).

    God still performs miracles. God still heals people. Sickness, disease, pain, and death are still realities in this world. Unless the Lord returns in the next 50 years or so, almost everyone who is alive today will die, and the vast majority of them (Christians included) will die as the result of a physical problem (disease, sickness, injury). It is not always God’s will to heal us physically.

    Ultimately, our full physical healing awaits us in Heaven. In Heaven, there will be no more pain, sickness, disease, suffering, or death (Revelation chapter 21). We all need to be less preoccupied with our physical condition in this world, and be a little more preoccupied with our spiritual condition (Romans 12:1-2).

    Then, we can focus our hearts on heaven and when we will no longer have to deal with physical problems, Revelation 21:4, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

    http://www.gotquestions.org/healing-Bible.html

    Just wanted to put that out there and to make clear that though our physical bodies are important (as WOF rightly acknowledges), that we should neither exalt them/THEIR BEING PERFECT above all else (as often is the case within SOME WOFChurches) NOR NEGLECT the importance in PRAYING FOR/TAKING CARE OF THEM (as do many OUTSIDE WOF and who DO NOT BELIEVE IN HEALINGS FOR TODAY or that ONE SHOULD PRAY IN FAITH FOR IT).

    Again, at the end of the day, IT’S ALL ABOUT WHATEVER THE LORD’S WILL IS, AND HOW HE CAN BE GLORIFIED BEST IN THE MOMENT….and, LIKE THE WORD SAYS, GOD IS CONCERNED FOR BOTH OUR BODIES AND OUR SOULS:

    Quote:
    3 John 1:2
    2Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well.

    However, like the Word says, the EMPHASIS SHOULD ALWAYS BE WITH OUR SOULS IN HIGHER REGARD ABOVE ALL ELSE.

    Quote:

    I Timothy 4:7-10

    7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

    9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

    In our society, much emphasis is placed on physical fitness, but spiritual health (godliness) is even more important. Our physical health is susceptible to disease and injury, but FAITH CAN SUSTAIN US THROUGH ANY TRAGEDY…….which is why we should always be looking to have our spiritual muscles developed and use our God-Given abilities in the service of the church or wherever we can (I Timothy 4:14-16)

    Hope this helps the discussion as well……Peace

  14. tbeachhireling said

    I hate this…
    …because I just don’t have time to do your eloquence justice. Forgive me for my terse reply. I have to make one comment on this statement:
    Quote:
    Now honest question: For those who have ever held to the doctrine that ALL SICKNESS/SUFFERING is NEVER APPROPIATE for the CHRISTIAN TO GO THROUGH and that GOD’S WORD PROMISES THAT if YOU had faith YOU would be healed of illness REGARDLESS, DOES IT NOT SEEM THAT SUCH A MENTALITY WOULD BE AN INSULT TO THE IDEA OF TRUE LOVE/COMMITMENT from a Biblical Standpoint?

    That is not the doctrine. No one teaches the “appropriateness” of suffering, but the source. We believe that all good things come from the Father of lights, and in Him there is no shadow of turning. We don’t believe that he sends evil spirits as He did on Saul to those who are partakers of the sure mercies of David.

    Therefore, no sickness comes from God, but all sickness has its source. We also believe that that statement of our faith gets tried, and sometimes severely. The trials are to be counted “all joy”, according to James, because the trial works patience, and patience makes us more like Abraham (and Noah, for that matter), whose faith was severely tried, over years, before the promise manifested itself.

    As it is written, “until it came to pass, the Word of the Lord tested [Joseph].” We must likewise, cling to that which is promised, not being daunted by any circumstances.

    I hope this helps.

  15. tbeachhireling said

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bob Carabbio
    Toxic WoF says that it’s YOUR responsibility to “whomp up faith” so you can get healed/Heal your family. But faith doesn’t “Whomp”. It’s either there or it ISN’T – period.

    You either believe what He said, or you don’t. That is the issue, and will remain the issue. If your opinion is built on your circumstances, it ain’t there.

    If your opinion is built on what the Lord has declared, you can say your life is built on the rock. And you prove your own faith by what you say and what you do.

    Quote:
    And if it isn’t there’s ABSOLUTELY nothing you can do to get it – like the Foolish and wise virgins.

    On the wonderful/terrible day, they all got up and did the “natural thing” the foolish ones proceeded foolishly, and the wise ones proceeded wisely. And in the crunch, the die was already cast – but the preparations for success/failure had been in process for YEARS.

    A life of faith has either been developed over time, or it hasn’t. It’s never too late to start, but it ain’t happen’in tomorrow.

    The relationship I have with God and with His Word is the only thing I can’t give away. I always wondered about that…

    …I mean…as a Christian, I would lay my life down for my foolish neighbor, and trust God for myself. I’d give the oil away!

    The only thing I can’t give away at all is my relationship, which is that which is built up with experience over time. Period…and the time to purchase that is NOW.

    Quote:
    And sometimes, since GOd has his OWN agenda for our lives faith for specific things ain’t happen’in – PERIOD. HE is sovereign after all. I can live with that.

    His agenda is nothing more or less than the perfection of our faith, more precious to Him than gold. That’s why he used gold to pave His streets…it has no value but to trample on it, unlike here on earth where we trample on our relationships to get the gold.

  16. tbeachhireling said

    Grrrrr…..

    Sorry. I get frustrated.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sos22
    Imagine the pain of someone in a strict WOF fellowship with chronic illness slowly marginalised and rebuked because they have not been healed. God indeed does heal, but in His way, at His time, according to His will, and according to the very particular spiritual needs of each of His children. He does not cause it, nor is it His will, which is the other extremity of viewpoint. But He can transform it. It is still a royal pain in the behind and I so look forward to the day when we are all free of it, when He will wipe every tear away.

    In my WoF, Rhema affiliated church, we have a friend who is paralyzed from the waist down. I don’t even think he has nerves connecting to the spine. (He has the most beautiful, devoted wife, who was disowned by her non-WoF father for marrying a cripple.) His license plate says “Walken”, because He knows what God has promised. He comes to every service. Serves as he can, is loved and supported by all, and when the inevitible healing preacher comes, he always goes forward, knowing that his day has already been declared. Knowing that, who cares what we see. We will stand together on the platform, and declare the power of God to all those who have been duped into thinking “it ain’t for them.”

    Until them, we wait, and rejoice in His unfailing promises. (It’s good, for those who don’t get this, to study the word “unfailing” in context. It’s easy, given circumstances that are insurmountable in the natural, to see into the invisible realm of the promise, which is as sure as an inheritance, which is as sure as the death of the Testator.)

  17. Double-G (G2) said

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tbeachhireling
    …because I just don’t have time to do your eloquence justice. Forgive me for my terse reply. I have to make one comment on this statement:That is not the doctrine. No one teaches the “appropriateness” of suffering, but the source. We believe that all good things come from the Father of lights, and in Him there is no shadow of turning. We don’t believe that he sends evil spirits as He did on Saul to those who are partakers of the sure mercies of David.

    Therefore, no sickness comes from God, but all sickness has its source. We also believe that that statement of our faith gets tried, and sometimes severely. The trials are to be counted “all joy”, according to James, because the trial works patience, and patience makes us more like Abraham (and Noah, for that matter), whose faith was severely tried, over years, before the promise manifested itself.

    As it is written, “until it came to pass, the Word of the Lord tested [Joseph].” We must likewise, cling to that which is promised, not being daunted by any circumstances.

    I hope this helps.

    Thanks for responding, Brah……and yes, IT DID HELP!!!!!

    By the way, when you said:

    Quote:
    We believe that all good things come from the Father of lights, and in Him there is no shadow of turning. We don’t believe that he sends evil spirits as He did on Saul to those who are partakers of the sure mercies of David.

    Therefore, no sickness comes from God, but all sickness has its source.

    If you go back and look at one of the things I posted from that book I read, there is a statement to show I agree with you on sickness isn’t necessarily a blessing from God or something we’re simply promised to deal with (otherwise there would be no need to pray for it to leave and witness how it has often gone, unlike other things such as persecution/trials, slander for the Name of Christ, etc)

    Quote:
    First, HEALTH AND HEALING are always portrayed in Scripture as the BLESSING OF GOD. Nowhere in the Bible does God promise sickness or disease as a blessing for his obediant children. Whereas it is true that God can use sickness to discipline us and instruct us (Psalm 6:2-3, Psalm 6:6-7, Psalm 32:1-7, Psalm 38, Psalm 41:1-4, Psalm 88:1-9, Psalm 88:15-18, Psalm 102:1-5, Psalm 102:8-11, Psalm 119:67, Psalm 119:71-75, etc), sickness in an of itself is never PORTRAYED AS GOOD.

    Secondly, Whereas all sickness is suffering, not all suffering is sickness. Jesus promised that all who followed Him would suffer persecutio, slander, rejection, and oppression. But He never said that about sickness. Nowhere in the Bible are obediant children of God told to EXPECT SICKNESS AND disease as part of their calling in life. Sickness is not a part of the cross we are called to bear (Note from G2: This is the reason why I believe we can pray for others to be healed and see them healed, as I’ve witnessed, for though not all will be healed, HEALING IS AN OPTION and is POSSIBLE FOR ALL BELIEVERS TO EXPERIENCE)

    Thirdly,Contrary to popular thought, SICKNESS AND DISEASE, in and of themselves, DO NOT GLORIFY GOD. Our unwavering faith and loyalty and love for God in spite of sickness and disease do glorify God.

    #15 , #16 ,

    Just wanted to clarify, for the purpose of the thread is not to show that SICKNESS IS A BEAUTIFUL THING OR SOMETHING WE SHOULD RUN FOR, but rather the purpose is WHAT DO WE DO WHEN WE HAVE IT, PRAYED FOR IT TO LEAVE, AND NOTHING HAPPENS….and moreover, IS IT ALWAYS GOD’S WILL TO HEAL AND IN HIS BEST INTEREST TO DO SO?

    Believe me, the woman in our church who was parlyzed would walk IN A HEARTBEAT if given the opportunity to do so…..

    But, in spite of the sickness/disability, she’s content and SHE’S STILL THRIVING/PRAISING THE LORD and her husband and her have chosen to become LIVING IMAGES OF WHAT Christ’s love is FOR US…….AND THOUGH they’ve prayed for healing for years, perhaps it was in GOD’S BEST INTEREST TO LEAVE THEM AS THEY ARE so HE COULD SHOW SOMETHING OF HIMSELF…as a part of a GREATER PLAN TO SHOW HIMSELF IN SOME KIND OF WAY.

    As one person once said,
    Quote:
    it is clear that God does not promise to heal everyone for whom we pray in faith. Paul wasn’t healed, though he prayed earnestly and faithfully (2 Corinthians 12:89). Jesus taught that it was not the blind man’s lack of faith that hindered his being healed. Rather, he was born blind “that the works of God should be revealed in him” (John 9:3). Despite the apostle Paul’s divine ability to heal others (Acts 28:9), later he apparently could not heal either Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25) or Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20). It clearly was not unbelief that brought Job’s sickness on him (Job 1:1).

    we must ask “according to His will” (1 John 5:14). Indeed, on all except God’s unconditional promises, this “if it be your will” must always be stated or implied.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qjesuspromise.html

    However, as has happened often at some WOF churches (and I have experienced this myself), many people will still claim that SICKNESS is NEVER SOMETHING THAT A BELIEVER SHOULD REMAIN IN—that ONE CAN NEVER GLORIFY GOD IN ANY CAPACITY WHEN THEY’RE SICK and that it is God’s Will to HEAL ALL THE TIME AND THAT HE WILL IF ONE SIMPLY ASKS IN FAITH/IN CHRIST’S NAME—-and that someone with a SICKNESS (or disability ) should be healed.

    If they aren’t, then either the person who is praying or the disabled person beleiving for healing simply lacked faith…..and moreover, the sickness/disability was not something that one had to live with if TRUE FAITH was present. Also, many other things practiced within some WOF churches would be brought up as well, such as the fact that if one keeps confessing “I’m HEALED” rather than adressing the sickness for what it is, then they’ll eventually be healed…..and, as others have testified, some have even been shuned/rebuked, dishonored or slowly marginlized for it if a healing didn’t take place immediately…..or even at all and the person died still with the sickness or disease (as it was for a woman at our church who had cancer and, even though she was prayed for as well, she was never healed……and DESPITE How she had made peace with it and believed that God has allowed it, when she died some people came off dishonoring her death/the wonderful life she lived IN SPITE OF THE SICKNESS in some of the statements made, such as “THAT CANCER SHOULD’VE NEVER REMAINED, FOR JESUS HAS VICTORY OVER IT”, or “How was God Glorified in that Sickness being PRESENT AND NOT GOING AWAY?”. and other things)

    By the way, regarding doctrine, I try to make sure that I don’t simply say something without evidence of it or ample resources….and if interested, this is something of the doctrine found within WOF (and heard of often when I was heavily into it) that I based some of my statements off on:

    Quote:

    Also, 1) Positive Confession: The Theology of the Spoken Word (Rhematology), or thought actualization, is commonly known as positive confession. It stresses the inherent power of words and thoughts. Each person predestines his own future by what he says verbally and by how well he uses spiritual laws. As such, it is as if we live in a mechanistic universe instead of a personal one (see, Kenneth Copeland, Laws of Prosperity, p. 15; Charles Capps, The Tongue A Creative Force, pp. 117-118; Releasing the Ability of God, pp. 98-99, 101-104).

    2) The Gospel of Health: Isaiah 53 is used to justify blanket coverage for the physical healing of every Christian who has enough faith. “…it is the plan of our Father God in His great love and His great mercy that no believer should ever be sick, that every believer should live his life full span down here on earth and that every believer should finally just fall asleep in Jesus” (Hagin, Seven Things You Should Know About Divine Healing, p. 21). Hagin also denies having a headache for forty-five years, labeling such as “simply symptoms rather than any indication of a headache” (In the Name of Jesus, p. 44).

    http://www.watchman.org/profile/wordpro.htm

    Of course, I could be OFF in what I’m saying……..I’ll write more later, but I hope that clarifies where I’m trying to come from moreso……….and again, thanks for responding. If you know of any resources or statements, as well as seromons they come from so I can hear the comments in context regarding the doctrine of HEALING/FAITH for HEALING and that you think I should investigate, I’d be more than glad to look into it so I’ll be as on point as possible

    Till then, BLESSINGS……….

  18. tbeachhireling said

    I will never diminish the difficulty we face when we’re being tried. I will stand with anyone who believes God in spite of what they see…and may she be wholly and fully blessed through the trial. That’s what is commanded of her, that she rejoice…not because of, but in spite of (an nuance too often ignored).

    Frankly…and I won’t, I can go over the execrable doctrines I’ve heard in so many churches, not the least of which are geared to take over from the Spirit the work the Spirit was sent to do.

    I cannot charge the immature with anything more dreadful than immaturity, and I cannot do better for myself than to rest in the Word, and communicate reasons to believe God to the best of my ability. He is worthy of all credance, in everything He has said, and too often His word is attenuated by our circumstances, rather than our fervency enhanced.

    I want to make comment on your quote from the watchdog organization:
    Also, 1) Positive Confession: The Theology of the Spoken Word (Rhematology), or thought actualization, is commonly known as positive confession. It stresses the inherent power of words and thoughts. Each person predestines his own future by what he says verbally and by how well he uses spiritual laws. As such, it is as if we live in a mechanistic universe instead of a personal one (see, Kenneth Copeland, Laws of Prosperity, p. 15; Charles Capps, The Tongue A Creative Force, pp. 117-118; Releasing the Ability of God, pp. 98-99, 101-104).

    2) The Gospel of Health: Isaiah 53 is used to justify blanket coverage for the physical healing of every Christian who has enough faith. “…it is the plan of our Father God in His great love and His great mercy that no believer should ever be sick, that every believer should live his life full span down here on earth and that every believer should finally just fall asleep in Jesus” (Hagin, Seven Things You Should Know About Divine Healing, p. 21). Hagin also denies having a headache for forty-five years, labeling such as “simply symptoms rather than any indication of a headache” (In the Name of Jesus, p. 44).
    My confession is not a magic formula that produces my destiny. It is my meditation day and night. As Jesus said, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. I abide in His Word, and when circumstances conflict, the first thing that rises up in me is the Word, not the circumstance, because that’s what abides.

    It’s not magic, but a pragmatic way of reminding my soul that there is another life, invisible and eternal, that weighs more heavily than the circumstance we’re facing.

    If I’m confessing other than what He has said, and this is WoF’s point, then I’m making a statement of faith…but my faith is based, not on the Word but on the circumstance. Thus God’s will is entirely and only manifested in what I see, and no longer in what He promised. Very often, though few admit it, we’ll confess that we believe at appropriate times, and then demonstrate that we don’t by constant and continuous repetition of statements that deny what we first confessed. (Does that make any sense?)

    I love what Hagin actually said. He had nothing against aspirine…he just didn’t need it so he hadn’t taken it. You don’t combat a symptom by confessing…the symptom is defeated, as was every enemy at the cross, and confession with thanksgiving merely acknowledges the fact. It’s not magic. Just a normal attitude in light of what God has done.

    And, in my opinion, that is all the tension of Faith.

  19. DOUBLE G (G2) said

    Had to say by the way how AWESOME IT Is that the members of your CHURCH HAVE STOOD BY IN FAITH AND HAVE BEEN BELIEVING FOR THE HEALING OF THAT MAN! HARD-CORE, BRAH, especially in light of the fact that many would’ve left him where he was and never bothered to be concerned for his physical body.

    Regarding the lady in our church, we still believe in faith that she will hopefully be healed in time…..and if not in this life, then it’s still all good since this life is not our final destination anyhow and eventually, Like the Word makes clear, “our full physical healing awaits us in Heaven. In Heaven, there will be no more pain, sickness, disease, suffering, or death (Revelation 21).”

    That being said, again, we know that the lady in our church in some way or another WILL BE HEALED and so we continue to pray/believe for that……And as my friend said yesterday when discussing the subject, “It’s not a matter of whether or not someone will be healed, but simply WHEN, FOR KEEPING THAT IN MIND MAKES IT APPROVABLE FOR ONE TO BELIEVE IN FAITH “I’M going to BE HEALED” since God made clear that HEALING FOR OUR BODIES WILL COME FOR US at SOME POINT, whether in this life or the next (sorry for being repetitive)

    i……..but untill then, she is where she is and THAT’S COOL AS WELL, for it’s not always GOD’S WILL TO HEAL IMMEDIATELY or EVEN AT ALL IN THIS LIFE……and moreover, HEALING IS NOT A RIGHT WE CAN DEMAND/EXPECT TO HAPPEN ALWAYS. To think that and pray on THAT basis can prove dangerous. As stated before,

    Quote:
    The fact that healing is an expressin of divine mercy Philippians 2:27…..Philippians 2:19-28) means that it should NEVER be viewed as a RIGHT. Healing is not the PAYMENT OF A DEBT….AND GOD DOES NOT OWE US HEALING. WE DON’T DESERVE HEALING.

    I believe we should have faith for healing. But there is a vast difference between faith in divine mercy and presumption based on an alleged right.

    The Word mercy is the same one used in the gospels to descibe why Jesus healed people while He was on Eathh. God’s motive for healing hasnt’t changed! The primary reason God healed through Jesus prior to Pentecost was because He is a Merciful and Compassionate God. God is no less MERCIFUL, NO LESS COMPASSIONATE, NO LESS CARING WHEN IT COMES TO THE PHYSICAL CONDITION OF HIS PEOPLE AFTER PENTECOST than He was BEFORE PENTECOST…..

    Prayer is presumptious when the person claiming healing does so without revelatory warrant or on the unbiblical assumption that God always wills to heal then and there. Then they feel required to account for the absence of healing by appealing either to moral failure or deficiency of faith (usually in the one for whom prayer is offered..)(Note from G2: This is often the case with many in WOF)

    People pray EXPECTANTLY when they humbly petition a merciful God for something they don’t deserve but that he delights to give (Luke 11:9-13)(Matthew 9:27-31, Matthew 20:29-34, Luke 17:13-14). Expectant prayer flows from the recognition that JESUS HEALED PEOPLE because He loved them and felt COMPASSION for them (Matthew 14:13-14, Matthew 20:34, Mark 1:41-42, Luke 7:11-17), a disposition in the heart of God that nothing in Scripture has changed.

    However, as your church seems to understand, there’s no denying that Spirituality is PHYSICAL!!!!! It’s not just about our souls, but our bodies as well:

    Quote:
    Although God is Spirit, HE INDEED created the PHYSICAL, Material World and pronounced it Good (Genesis 1:4-25)….AND WHEN GOD CREATED US IN HIS IMAGE, HE GAVE US BODIES. These truths can be seen nowhere better than in the Biblical emphaisis on “the laying on of hands”, for though on several occasions Jesus healed people with the spoken Word alone….in most instances HE DID SO BY LAYING HIS HANDS ON THEM or by TOUCHING THEM OR BY MAKING PHYSICAL CONTACT. Perhaps the most amazing text if all is Luke 4:40, where it is said that Jesus laid hands on “every one” of those in a VAST MULTITUDE who had come to him for aid. It must have been physically exhausting and time-intensive for him to do so, but Jesus took the opportunity to lay his hands on EVERY PERSON who cmae ot him for prayer.

    And it’s sad how many churches conduct themselves when it comes to healing:

    Quote:
    Many in the church today say they believe that God still heals, but they live as functional diests who rarely if ever actually lay hands on the sick and pray with any degree of expectancy.

    That’s where I think WOF churches indeed have it right (though it can honestly be in the EXTREME when HEALING IN THE BODY IS THE FOCUS AND SEEN AS THE ONLY TRUE DEMONSTRATION OF GOD’S POWER at WORK IN A PERSON’S LIFE, at the EXPENSE OF DEVELOPING OUR SPIRITS. CONVERSION, PROVIDENCE, etc),……for we’re called to pray for the sick and believe for healing today, which still HAPPENS WHETHER PEOPLE WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT OR NOT:

    Quote:
    James 5:13-15

    The Prayer of Faith

    13Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

    God cares about both our bodies and our souls, but too many approach the subject of healing/soul with an “EITHER OR” mentality and that may be the source behind why there has been so much damage on ALL SIDES when it comes to the issue of HEALING.

    As said earlier,

    Quote:

    #18

    that though our physical bodies are important (as WOF rightly acknowledges), that we should neither exalt them/THEIR BEING PERFECT above all else (as often is the case within SOME WOFChurches) NOR NEGLECT the importance in PRAYING FOR/TAKING CARE OF THEM (as do many OUTSIDE WOF and who DO NOT BELIEVE IN HEALINGS FOR TODAY or that ONE SHOULD PRAY IN FAITH FOR IT).

    Again, at the end of the day, IT’S ALL ABOUT WHATEVER THE LORD’S WILL IS, AND HOW HE CAN BE GLORIFIED BEST IN THE MOMENT….and, LIKE THE WORD SAYS, GOD IS CONCERNED FOR BOTH OUR BODIES AND OUR SOULS:

    Quote:
    Quote:
    3 John 1:2
    2Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well.

    However, like the Word says, the EMPHASIS SHOULD ALWAYS BE WITH OUR SOULS IN HIGHER REGARD ABOVE ALL ELSE.

    Quote:

    Quote:

    I Timothy 4:7-10

    7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

    9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

    In our society, much emphasis is placed on physical fitness, but spiritual health (godliness) is even more important. Our physical health is susceptible to disease and injury, but FAITH CAN SUSTAIN US THROUGH ANY TRAGEDY…….which is why we should always be looking to have our spiritual muscles developed and use our God-Given abilities in the service of the church or wherever we can (I Timothy 4:14-16)

    Gotta bounce, but thanks again for responding…………and by the way,

    Quote:
    Grrrrr…..
    Sorry. I get frustrated.

    In case that was adressed to Sos22 (which it appeared to be since it was right above her name), pray you don’t choose to be mad/irritated at her……for she has a valid point (and she prays for/stands in faith for healing for the SICK too, despite how she herself’s struggling with being sick too!!!). If you weren’t mad at her, though, My apologies for saying anything

    Peace, Brah……….

  20. Double-G (G2) said

    To a degree I agree with the Principle of DEATH and LIFE IN THE POWER OF THE TONGUE and that we should make sure our Word are in line with what the Bible advocates

    Quote:
    Proverbs 12:14

    Quote:

    14 From the fruit of his lips a man is filled with good things
    as surely as the work of his hands rewards him.

    (NOTE: As another said, “MOUTH….Hands…each yields a product which—good or bad— is the reward of the speaker or the worker)

    Proverbs 18:21

    21 The tongue has the power of life and death,
    and those who love it will eat its fruit.

    I believe wholeheartedly that to not guard what we say can be dangerous and that, as Christians, we should make certain that we speak in line with anything that’d be LIFE (i.e. Anything that’s in line with God’s Perspective and that supports what His Word says on the various issues of Life/Living life in this fallen World) as opposed to speaking DEATH (I.e Focusing on Life’s Negatives, Speaking based only on the Circumstances rather than based what we say on the Character/Promises of God AND WHO HE IS, Complaining, Gripping, Gossip, Slander, Discouraging Words)
    etc)

    Moreover, as you said (which I agree), when my HEART IS FULL OF HIS WORD, then of course that’ll be the thing I’ll be confessing daily–THAT’LL BE ALL I want to confess since that’s all that truly matters AND WHAT TRULY BRINGS LIFE. Just like God told Joshua when he was discouraged,

    Quote:
    Joshua 1

    The LORD Commands Joshua

    1 After the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, the LORD said to Joshua son of Nun, Moses’ aide: 2 “Moses my servant is dead. Now then, you and all these people, get ready to cross the Jordan River into the land I am about to give to them—to the Israelites. 3 I will give you every place where you set your foot, as I promised Moses. 4 Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates—all the Hittite country—to the Great Sea [a] on the west. 5 No one will be able to stand up against you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you.
    6 “Be strong and courageous

    “Be strong and courageous, because you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their forefathers to give them. 7 Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. 8 Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. 9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go.”

    10 So Joshua ordered the officers of the people….

    Moreover,

    Quote:
    Psalm 1

    1 Blessed is the man
    who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked (i.e. anything against the viewpoint of the Lord)
    or stand in the way of sinners
    or sit in the seat of mockers.

    2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
    and on his law he meditates day and night.
    3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water,
    which yields its fruit in season
    and whose leaf does not wither.
    Whatever he does prospers.

    4 Not so the wicked!
    They are like chaff
    that the wind blows away.
    5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
    nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. 6 For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
    but the way of the wicked will perish.

    Regarding Psalm 1, we learn how to follow God by meditating on His Word, with “MEDITATING” meaning asking yourself how you should change to live as God wants and “WRESTLING” with the perspectives that are challenging what you’ve been taught to believe (pre-concieved notions/ideas that are not Biblical)/Thinking ON what God has said.

    Like verses 2-3 make clear, the more we delight in/dwell in GOD’S PRESENCE AND WORD, as opposed to the OPINIONS AND VIEWS of FALLIABLE MEN/THOSE WHO MAY RIDCULE GOD or PERSPECTIVES NOT IN LINE WITH HIS WORD, the more FRUITFUL WE ARE IN OUR THOUGHTS AND ATTITUDES.

    Regarding “Whatever he does shall prosper”, according to my study bible,
    Quote:
    “The phrase does not mean IMMUNITY FROM FAILURES or DIFFICULTIES. Nor does it guarantee HEALTH, WEALTH, AND HAPPINESS.” What the Bible DOES MEAN BY PROSPERITY IS THAT WHEN WE APPLY GOD’S WISDOM, THE FRUIT (RESULTS OR BY-PRODUCTS) we bear will be GOOD and will recieve GOD’S APPROVAL. Just as a tree soaks up water and bears luscious fruit, so also are we to soak up God’s Word, producing actions and attitudes that honor God…….to do anything worthwile, we MUST HAVE GOD’S WORD IN OUR HEARTS

    Anything else is simply CHAFF—Light and EASILY CARRIED AWAY of NO SUBSTANCE/WEIGHT or WORTH—AND IT WILL WASTE AWAY
    Proverbs 2, Proverbs 4, etc

    Going along with that,

    Quote:
    Psalm 19:7-14

    7 The law of the LORD is perfect,
    reviving the soul.
    The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy,
    making wise the simple.

    8 The precepts of the LORD are right,
    giving joy to the heart.
    The commands of the LORD are radiant,
    giving light to the eyes.
    9 The fear of the LORD is pure,
    enduring forever.
    The ordinances of the LORD are sure
    and altogether righteous.
    10 They are more precious than gold,
    than much pure gold;
    they are sweeter than honey,
    than honey from the comb.
    11 By them is your servant warned;
    in keeping them there is great reward.

    12 Who can discern his errors?
    Forgive my hidden faults.
    13 Keep your servant also from willful sins;
    may they not rule over me.
    Then will I be blameless,
    innocent of great transgression.

    14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
    be pleasing in your sight,
    O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

    kNOWING THAT EVERY THOUGHT AND WORD WILL BE EXAMINED BY GOD FIRST should affect the way we live RADICALLY……God’s Word must determine/guide how we think and what we say……and how what LOGICAL reasons could there possibly be for not doing so? For His WORD BRING LIFE, regardless of how BEYOND COMPREHNSION or NOT WORTH FOLLOWING THEY may SEEM at times compared to how WE SEE THINGS TO BE.

    In relation to that, here’s something that I remember praying about/studying on a while back:

    [/quote]

    Quote:
    Luke 8:49-56

    49While Jesus was still speaking, someone came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler. “Your daughter is dead,” he said. “Don’t bother the teacher any more.”

    50Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, “Don’t be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed.”

    51When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child’s father and mother. 52Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. “Stop wailing,” Jesus said. “She is not dead but asleep.”
    53They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54But he took her by the hand and said, “My child, get up!” 55Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. 56Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened

    This passage has always been something that has always intrigued me, for Jairus’s circle of friends made him feel confused, afraid, and without hope……and yet Jesus’s words to him in the midst of crisis speak to us as well: “Don’t be afraid; just BELIEVE”………..There is both hope and promise in Jesus and whenever we are afraid/confused or circumstances arise that discourage us, to look at it from JeSUS’S point of view/speak on that basis is always the solution.

    Even when everyone was saying differnt and the circumstance seemed to be calling for everyone to laugh/speak and wail as if she was dying (for in that culture LOUD WEEPING AND WAILING WAS CUSTOMARY at a person’s death…..and some women even made mourning a profession and were paid by the person’s family to weep over the body…hence, why some of the people were probably able to switch into laughter so quickly when a moment that serious would’ve kept people in crying if they truly love the person who died), Jesus told them to stopsimply said “She’s Asleep” (Mark 5:39)……

    And so it is often the case that the circumstances around us may seem to be calling us to speak/believe in something that may not be necessarily God’s Plan (such as the case with someone being sick/disabled and their not being healed leading others to believe “Hey, IT’S NOT GOD’S WILL…..so DON’T PRAY ABOUT HEALING ANYMORE FOR THEM”)…….but again, JESUS’S POINT OF VIEW IS ALWAYS A BIT DIFFERENT THAN OURS and so we should speak and believe on that BASIS!!! On the BASIS OF WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE’S ABLE TO DO!!!! For our hope as Christians is not found in the CIRCUMSTANCES, but in the RESSURECTED LORD AND THE ONE WHO HAS THE POWER OVER DEATH AND LIFE ITSELF( John 11:25)—THERFORE MAKING HIM AND HIM ALONE THE ONE WITH THE FINAL WORD ON ANY ISSUE OF LIFE or TRAGEDY THAT MAY OCCUR.

    There’s never ANY TIME where we as Christians have to live life without assurance or certainty in the God WE SERVE (AND I HIGHLY SUGGEST ANYONE WHO’LL READ THIS TO INVESTIGATE John 11 to see the POINT MORE CLEARLY, WHICH IS THE STORY OF JESUS HEALING LAZARUS and proving HE IS SUPREME OVER ANY SITUATION)…..and, as said before, EVEN IF THINGS DON’T GO AS WE PLAN/HOPE FOR (such as praying for someone to be healed but they don’t become healed immediately or even at all), God HAS ALREADY ASSURED US THAT EVERYTHING FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM IS WORKING OUT NOT FOR OUR BAD…..but FOR OUR ULTIMATE GOOD (Romans 8:28)…..even when we’re in situations where things don’t seem to be working out for our HAPPINESS, they’re still WORKING OUT FOR OUR ULTIMATE GOOD (Romans 8:28)

    Believers have always had to face hardships in many forms: PERSECUTION, Illness, Imprisionment, even death….AND THESE COULD CAUSE THEM TO FEAR THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ABANDONED BY CHRIST. BuT Paul exclaims that is is impossible to be seperated from the Love of Christ. His death is PROOF OF HIS UNCONQUERABLE LOVE……and as that couple in our church experienced, NOTHING CAN HINDER CHRIST’S EMPOWERING PRESENCE BEING WITH US……and because God tells us how GREAT HIS LOVE IS FOR US, WE CAN BE TOTALLY SECURE AND CONFIDENT AT ALL TIMES.

    Quote:
    Romans 8:28-39

    More Than Conquerors
    28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[a] who[b] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

    31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:

    “For your sake we face death all day long;
    we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[c]

    37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[d] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord

    And like the WOrd says, regardless of circumstances , WE CAN TRULY COUNT IT ALL JOY (James 1:2-12)

    Though I don’t think it should be to the extreme that we do deny what may appear to be something, such as seeing feeling not well that day and refusing to say “Man, things are looking pretty bad”, or acknowledging symptoms like “Man, I feel a bit light-headed today; perhaps I need some rest or have a headache” or “My head is kind of hearting”because of fear that if you ACKNOWLEDGE IT, YOU’RE SOMEHOW BOUND TO STAY IN IT……but if it’s acknowledging the circumstances/talking over a problem and expressing how we honestly feeland then LOOKING BACK TO GOD to regain a right perspective IN THEM, such as what happened often in the Psalms—-Psalm 13, Psalm 22, Psalm 77, Psalm 88, and others for example—then it’s all good…….

    Just my $.02 cents for now………and hopefuly, back to the mainTOPIC OF THE POST (though the tangents have been fun and like I said, they are tying into the main topic of the post, even if others don’t see it that way yet,

    PEACE……………..

  21. Double-G (G²) said

    SOS22,

    Where u at, gurl???

    Seriously, are you hur???

  22. sos22 said

    I’m here G2!

    I popped in yesterday and have been reading the discussion but was too tired to post. It’s fascinating as ever, this whole topic.

    TBEACHHIRELING – forgive my manner if you found it too harsh – it is wonderful to hear of how the man in your church is treated by his brothers and sisters in Christ. To put my view in context – my own experience of a WOF church was one where they insisted that my son’s severe asthma was not being healed because I did not have enough faith. I was gently admonished many times, as he continued not to be healed, for my lack of faith. I won’t write about it more because I have elsewhere but I came to realise that if my son’s healing depended on me then it meant that it didn’t matter how strong Christ’s power was, if it’s expression was dependent on the one weak link in the chain – me.

    In the end Christ taught me that I only had to have faith enough to cry out ‘Jesus, help!’, and leave the outcome to Him. To allow Him to express His healing power in what ever way He saw fit. My son still has very severe asthma but it is very well controlled with daily medication and he hasn’t had asthma attack since he was twelve years old.

    DOUBLE G – back to a post you did a while back. That married love is a metaphor of Christ’s love for His church and that He too had a bride that was sick and imperfect. But His love, His redemption, utterly beautified her and made her pure and radiant just for Him. YES!

    He does that for each of us as well. You quoted one of my favourite passages: Christ’s words in the synagogue taken from Isiah, when, incredibly for the people who were there listening, He said ‘today, in your presence, the Scriptures are fulfilled’. My favourite verse from the whole passage is this:

    ‘to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes..’

    for that is what He does. In the macro, He did it for all His church in His death upon the cross. In the micro, He does it for each of us as we surrender daily to Him and He refines us and transforms us.

    As usual the Lord is all paradox, and I love it : He healed human misery: physical, spiritual, mental and emotional on earth. He paid as much attention to the human body and it’s suffering as to any other part of the particular person in front of Him. He was utterly holistic in His healing. And yet in this fallen world it is through our brokenness that He best shines, not through shiny ‘perfection’.

    The utter worth of a human body can be seen in His. For it was through a Man’s body that God saved us all. Christ was the one perfect and all complete sacrifice for the redemption of sins. And by the time human evil, Satan, and God’s wrath were through with Him on Good Friday, the Scriptures tell us that He didn’t even resemble a man any more. Yet to me that Friday was the day when He was most beautiful – blindingly beautiful.

    It’s all paradox and mystery. Isn’t it great!

  23. Double-G (G2) said

    Wow…….

    Marvelous thoughts on the issus (though to be honest, it felt moreso like I was reading Poetry/CHRISTIAN LITERATURE moreso than PLAIN SCRIPTIURAL ANALYSIS, even though both were involved in your post……but hey, that’s how God wired ya, and it’s SO cool to see…THE WAY YOU WRITE REALLY HELPS TO GET YOUR POINTS ACROSS SINCE IT ALL FLOWS SO WELL)

    By the way, some thoughts

    Regarding the analogy of the Church being like a BRIDE TO CHRIST and CHRIST BEING THE GROOM MADLY IN LOVE WITH US, beautifying us even though we are sickly in so many ways, here’s a thought for ya.

    As I’m certain, you fell in love with your husband not just because he was attractive, but I’m also guessing because he WOOED you….and for that matter, kept you on your toes in the way he acted and was never FULLY UNDERSTANDABLE, just as every ROMANCE HAS AN ASPECT OF MYSTERY THAT MAKES THE RELATIONSHIP ROMANTIC/WORTH EXPLORING CONSTANTLY.

    That being said, regarding this statement:

    SOS22: “As usual the Lord is all paradox, and I love it : He healed human misery: physical, spiritual, mental and emotional on earth. He paid as much attention to the human body and it’s suffering as to any other part of the particular person in front of Him. He was utterly holistic in His healing. And yet in this fallen world it is through our brokenness that He best shines, not through shiny ‘perfection’.”

    So, do you think that the LORD’S APPEARING PARADOXICAL—in the sense of the Lord SHINNING BRIGHTLY through His healing so often back then (as well as today still in many cases) and yet today still seeming to leave some unhealed and yet shine JUST AS BRIGHTLY through their “brokeness” (as is the case with the couple in my church)——DO YOU THINK THAT ALL OF THAT IS APART OF GOD WOOING THE CHURCH UNTO HIMSELF?……..or thAT HIS APPEARING PARADOX IS A WAY OF HIM NOT ONLY TESTING US so that WE’LL GROW (as COUPLES often test/challenge each other in a relationship so that both will grow in areas where they’re weak), but PERHAPS PLAYING “HARD TO GET like A HUSBAND DOES WITH HIS WIFE (as is the case often in RELATIONSHIPS), KEEP THINGS INTERESTING AND CAUSING US TO PURSUE HIM MORE, CONSTANTLY BE INTRIGUED/FASCINATED BY WHO HE IS?

    Basically, DO YOU FEEL THAT GOD’S CHOOSING TO HEAL OFTEN IN SOME CASES AND NOT IN OTHERS, with us wondering why but never knowing, IS A WAY OF HIS NOT ONLY MAINTAINING THAT HE’S GOD ALONE AND DETERMINER OF WHAT’S BEST/WHAT HAPPENS,……… but a WAY OF giving HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEMONSTRATE THE MYRIAD OF WAYS HE CAN PEFORM IN OUR LIVES, as well as DEMONSTRATING HIS AMAZING CHARACTER (i.e. SPIRITUAL COMMITMENT, FAITHFULNES, INTEGRITY, SENSITIVITY, SINCERITY, ABILITY, POWER, ETC) —–THE BASIS BEHIND ALL LASTING RELATIONSHIPS WHEN ALL THINGS THAT ARE OUTER APPEARANCE, just as it is with PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES, OR SUPERFICAL TRAITS like CONVIENCE/COMFORTABILITY FADE AWAY OR OTHER THINGS MAY FAIL……

    AND THAT PERHAPS HIS CHOOSING TO NOT ALWAYS HEAL IS A WAY OF PROMOTING HOW DIVERSE/INTRIGUING AND MYSTERIOUS/WORTHY OF PURSUING HE IS????……Basically, HIS BEING PARADOXICAL KEEPING US “IN LOVE” WITH HIM?

    Some things to consider:

    Quote:
    Job 11:6-10

    6 and disclose to you the secrets of wisdom,
    for true wisdom has two sides.
    Know this: God has even forgotten some of your sin. 7 “Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
    Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
    8 They are higher than the heavens—what can you do?
    They are deeper than the depths of the grave [a] —what can you know?
    9 Their measure is longer than the earth
    and wider than the sea.
    10 “If he comes along and confines you in prison
    and convenes a court, who can oppose him?

    Quote:
    Proverbs 25:2

    2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;

    to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

    4
    Quote:
    Hosea 2:14-23

    “Therefore I am now going to allure her;
    I will lead her into the desert
    and speak tenderly to her.

    15 There I will give her back her vineyards,
    and will make the Valley of Achor [a] a door of hope.
    There she will sing [b] as in the days of her youth,
    as in the day she came up out of Egypt.
    16 “In that day,” declares the LORD,
    “you will call me ‘my husband’;
    you will no longer call me ‘my master. [c] ‘
    17 I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips;
    no longer will their names be invoked.
    18 In that day I will make a covenant for them
    with the beasts of the field and the birds of the air
    and the creatures that move along the ground.
    Bow and sword and battle
    I will abolish from the land,
    so that all may lie down in safety.
    19 I will betroth you to me forever;
    I will betroth you in [d] righteousness and justice,
    in [e] love and compassion.
    20 I will betroth you in faithfulness,
    and you will acknowledge the LORD.
    21 “In that day I will respond,”
    declares the LORD—
    “I will respond to the skies,
    and they will respond to the earth;
    22 and the earth will respond to the grain,
    the new wine and oil,
    and they will respond to Jezreel. [f]
    23 I will plant her for myself in the land;
    I will show my love to the one I called ‘Not my loved one. [g] ‘
    I will say to those called ‘Not my people, [h] ‘ ‘You are my people’;
    and they will say, ‘You are my God.’ ”

    NOTE FROM G2: I included this one in there because of how at the beginning of the book (As welll as at that point in time) Israel was about to go into EXILE because of how adulterous they were with other nations and God was going to divorce them……and yet it seems paradoxical that later HE DECIDED TO TAKE THEM AWAY/LOVE THEM, changing the VALLEY OF ACHOR (which means “trouble” and where God had brought great disaster on Joshua’s troops since Achan sinned,) and changing what may’ve beemn a time of trouble into a day of HOPE ……..ALL so that they’d love Him more.

    I find that interesting because, naturally, you’d predict that God would’ve left them to hang dry (WHICH TO A DEGREE HE DID, since they DID GO INTO EXILE/SUFFERED…II Kings 17 …..and yet HE SURPRISES EVERYONE by choosing to use EVEN THE NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES to CREATE OPPORTUNITIES to TURN BACK TO HIM AND FALL IN LOVE WITH HIM AGAIN. Seems like ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF GOD BEING PARADOXICAL TO “WOO” US BACK TO HIM

    The same could be said of the famous verse of Jeremiah 29:10-14, for most people often forget that the promises of “PLANS TO PROSPER YOU AND NOT TO HARM YOU…..” weren’t simply spoken for encouragements sake or when everything seemed good and one wanted something nice to think on, but rather they were spoken in a time of JUDGEMENT—-GOD JUDGING HIS PEOPLE, for the they were in EXILE (Read all of Jeremiah 29) and though they thought they would go home by God’s hand soon, God told them to settle down………even though they were captive in Babylon/suffering for their sins, God did not forget themet them stay for the purpose of strengthinng them and making them better and spoke words promising a HOPE AND A FUTURE/A NEW PURPOSE WITH A NEW BEGINNING despite the fact that where He was telling them to stay at SEEMED ANYTHING BUT HOPEFUL and probably THE END.

    But all of that was to show the PEOPLE HIS CHARACTER THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS and to PREPARE THEM for when they came out so that THEY’D LOVE HIM MORE AND BE AMAZED AT HOW THROUGH THE SORROW/FRUSTRATION AND PHYSICAL PROBLEMS HOW HE WORKED EVERYTHING OUT FOR THEIR GOOD!!!( Jeremiah 33, spoken in the midst of God pronouncing Judgement on the people and how they’d soon be exiled, Ezekiel 37, also spoken when the people were in EXILE, Ezra 3, which shows the REMARKABLE RESTORATION OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD, and many other verses besides this like Zechariah 8, Haggai 2, AND VARIOUS OTHERS )

    Needless to say, GOD’S BEING PARADOXICAL (HARD TO READ/LEAVING US WONDERING AT TIMES) TRULY INFLUENCES HOW MUCH LOVE AND AWE WE HAVE FOR HIM, I think……

  24. Double-G (G2) said

    1 Corinthians 2:9-11

    However, as it is written:
    “No eye has seen,
    no ear has heard,
    no mind has conceived
    what God has prepared for those who love him”[a]— 10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.

    The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

    Quote:
    1 Corinthians 2:14-16

    4The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:

    16″For who has known the mind of the Lord
    that he may instruct him?”[a] But we have the mind of Christ.

    Note from G2 ON THIS ONE: No one can comprehend God (Romans 11:34), but through the GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, believers have insight into some of God’s Plans, thoughts, and actions—they, in fact, have “the mind of CHRIST”….and through the HOLY SPIRIT/spending time constantly/consistenly in His prescense we can begin to know GOD’S thoughts, talk with Him, and expect His answers in our prayers.

    Just wanted to add that in there, regarding the subject, in light of how JUST AS COUPLES MUST SPEND TIME WITH EACH OTHER IF THEY’RE TO LEARN EACH OTHER’S SECRETS and BECOME ONE IN MIND/SOUL AND BODY WITH ONE ANOTHER, so we CANNOT BE ONE WITH THE FATHER AND UNDERSTAND HIM FULLY IF WE DON’T SPEND TIME WITH HIM AS WELL…..and IMO, GOD’S REMAINING MYSTERIOUS can be a way of FORCING US TO REALLY INVESTIGATE HIM/BECOME ONE WITH HIM since ONLY THROUGH COMMUNING WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN WE RELATE TO HIM AND KNOW HIS MYSTERIES……but apart from that, just as you wouldn’t entrust yourself or BE EASILY READABLE in a relationship with anyone who didn’t show any sign of truly desiring you/acknowledging you REGARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCES, WHY WOULD NOT DO DIFFERENTLY?

    Quote:
    Psalm 25:14

    14 The LORD confides in those who fear him;
    he makes his covenant known to them.

    Continuing…..

    Quote:
    2 Corinthians 4:7-18

    7But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. 8We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

    13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.”[a]With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

    16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

    Love to hear your thoughts sometime, sis…….

  25. sos22 said

    Interesting, because in human love it is usually the woman who will play ‘hard to get’. She does it gently, to draw her man closer, to test if he truly wants her and will wait for her, woo her, be persistent.

    I think that God is and He isn’t like this – more paradox! I think that on the Cross Jesus showed what God’s love was truly like; He held nothing back, His love was utterly naked and open in every sense possible even down to the position He died in; raised up so all could see, and with wide outstretched arms. ‘ and I, when I am lifted up will draw all men to Myself’.

    In this sense I think that God does not hide at all, and in the old Testament when He has this tumultuous, passionate, pain filled love affair with the children of Israel, He pours His heart out on the line, nothing hidden. I realised as I read that time after time in His rage and pain He would threaten horrors and then, He just couldn’t do it. Instead His love would reach to them again and again. It was she, Israel, who played hard to get not from love, but from unfaithfulness and rejection. Of course there were times when God hid His face but more usually than not He was the pursuer, and even His hiding became a means to make His people hungry and lonely for Him so that they would seek Him out again.

    What a woman loves instinctively in a man she is attracted to, is if he is steadfast in his love for her, never faltering. A man who is complete in himself but who loves her and longs for her. Christ’s love is like that.
    [to be continued after next quote]

    Quote:
    Basically, DO YOU FEEL THAT GOD’S CHOOSING TO HEAL OFTEN IN SOME CASES AND NOT IN OTHERS, with us wondering why but never knowing, IS A WAY OF HIS NOT ONLY MAINTAINING THAT HE’S GOD ALONE AND DETERMINER OF WHAT’S BEST/WHAT HAPPENS,……… but a WAY OF giving HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEMONSTRATE THE MYRIAD OF WAYS HE CAN PEFORM IN OUR LIVES, as well as DEMONSTRATING HIS AMAZING CHARACTER (i.e. SPIRITUAL COMMITMENT, FAITHFULNES, INTEGRITY, SENSITIVITY, SINCERITY, ABILITY, POWER, ETC) —–THE BASIS BEHIND ALL LASTING RELATIONSHIPS WHEN ALL THINGS THAT ARE OUTER APPEARANCE, just as it is with PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES, OR SUPERFICAL TRAITS like CONVIENCE/COMFORTABILITY FADE AWAY OR OTHER THINGS MAY FAIL……

    AND THAT PERHAPS HIS CHOOSING TO NOT ALWAYS HEAL IS A WAY OF PROMOTING HOW DIVERSE/INTRIGUING AND MYSTERIOUS/WORTHY OF PURSUING HE IS????…..Basically, HIS BEING PARADOXICAL KEEPING US “IN LOVE” WITH HIM?

    ….but, the reason that Christ moves in way you describe is that He too is not very different from the men He has created. For example – every man runs a mile instinctively from a woman who is so eager for marriage and family, that she will marry any man who will have her. Wonderful though marriage and family can be, the man wants to be wanted for himself, not just so he can be a means to an end. God is the same. He too longs to be desired for Himself not just what He can give, therefore the only rock He will give us to stand on, the only sure thing, is Himself, otherwise for many of us He would just be a means to an end; healing, wealth, properity, whatever.

    So He is immutable, never changes, burns with a consuming fire of love continually. In fact I think if more hearts really dwelt on how completely and passionately they are loved by Christ that of itself would heal so, so much, in the human heart. That is why I believe in terms of showing His love He has always been completely over the top, completely extravagant, completely open. When He feeds the five thousand there are baskets and baskets of food left over. How unPresbyterian of Him . When Peter catches the fish, the nets break there are so many. When He dies in that appalling act of love, there, for all to see is the depth of His love – Satan has no twist he can pull to bend the love displayed that day.

    But regarding other things He is so unpredictable! The love never falters but its expression often does. I think He does not want us to become stuck on a particular blessing, many of which he showers on us, because then, without meaning to, we would rest on it, instead of on Him.

    In that sense He seems often not to be where you last saw Him. His disciples left a dead body in the tomb, but that is not where He was when they returned, He was awake, living and strong in the garden, which is where Mary found Him. Even in little things He does this. Music often reminds me of Him. A chord of music is so complete and multi-layered that sometimes I stop stock still when I hear a certain piece of music and weep. It reminds me of Him. If I play and play that music over and over soon the sense of Him leaves it. He does not stay long in one place so that I know the music was only an echo of Him. Do I make any sense with all of this?

    So in short, I believe He never hides His love, He is as utterly naked and open about that as He could be, culminating in its ultimate expression on Good Friday. But regarding His blessings, although He is utterly extravagant with them He never displays formuala or predictability, lest we rely on them rather than Him.

    Quote:
    4NOTE FROM G2: I included this one in there because of how at the beginning of the book (As welll as at that point in time) Israel was about to go into EXILE because of how adulterous they were with other nations and God was going to divorce them……and yet it seems paradoxical that later HE DECIDED TO TAKE THEM AWAY/LOVE THEM, changing the VALLEY OF ACHOR (which means “trouble” and where God had brought great disaster on Joshua’s troops since Achan sinned,) and changing what may’ve beemn a time of trouble into a day of HOPE ……..ALL so that they’d love Him more.

    I find that interesting because, naturally, you’d predict that God would’ve left them to hang dry (WHICH TO A DEGREE HE DID, since they DID GO INTO EXILE/SUFFERED…II Kings 17 …..and yet HE SURPRISES EVERYONE by choosing to use EVEN THE NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES to CREATE OPPORTUNITIES to TURN BACK TO HIM AND FALL IN LOVE WITH HIM AGAIN. Seems like ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF GOD BEING PARADOXICAL TO “WOO” US BACK TO HIM

    The same could be said of the famous verse of Jeremiah 29:10-14, for most people often forget that the promises of “PLANS TO PROSPER YOU AND NOT TO HARM YOU…..” weren’t simply spoken for encouragements sake or when everything seemed good and one wanted something nice to think on, but rather they were spoken in a time of JUDGEMENT—-GOD JUDGING HIS PEOPLE, for the they were in EXILE (Read all of Jeremiah 29) and though they thought they would go home by God’s hand soon, God told them to settle down………even though they were captive in Babylon/suffering for their sins, God did not forget themet them stay for the purpose of strengthinng them and making them better and spoke words promising a HOPE AND A FUTURE/A NEW PURPOSE WITH A NEW BEGINNING despite the fact that where He was telling them to stay at SEEMED ANYTHING BUT HOPEFUL and probably THE END.

    But all of that was to show the PEOPLE HIS CHARACTER THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS and to PREPARE THEM for when they came out so that THEY’D LOVE HIM MORE AND BE AMAZED AT HOW THROUGH THE SORROW/FRUSTRATION AND PHYSICAL PROBLEMS HOW HE WORKED EVERYTHING OUT FOR THEIR GOOD!!!( Jeremiah 33, spoken in the midst of God pronouncing Judgement on the people and how they’d soon be exiled, Ezekiel 37, also spoken when the people were in EXILE, Ezra 3, which shows the REMARKABLE RESTORATION OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD, and many other verses besides this like Zechariah 8, Haggai 2, AND VARIOUS OTHERS )

    That is the ultimate paradox, that a spell in the desert, which we would all hate, a place of tears, God uses to draw so close to Him, to teach us the depth of His love. He turns the tears into pools of fresh water. So that when all we rely on is stripped away, once the grieving is over, we learn how much sweeter it to be fed from His own scarred hands than through our own strength.

    I have been learning a little about Cantor recently, a mathematician who studied infinity. He discovered that there was more than one kind of infinity, that in fact there were an infinite number of them . This he called the Continuum Hypothesis. Because of his work and the work of others like Turing and Gurdel who followed him, mathematics was in uproar, the old certainties and order seemed turned upside down. Logic, mathematics, physics has its limitations. The old order fought against this, thought it meant the ‘death of God’. Of course what it means is just that God is BIGGER and will always confound human knowledge. He will always be bigger and more complex than the latest ‘certainty’ we rest on.

    Mathemeticians now know that there will always be some problems that are unsolvable. Logicians know that there are limits to logic. Physicists now know that at the heart of the universe is a wonderful creative disorder as well as pattern and laws.

    Gurdel then tried to find an equation for intuition, that divine spark, that both he and Einstein, realised informed all leaps in science, physics and maths. Of course he could not find an equation for intuition. It is beyond logic. I love science but even here God says, no certainties but Me, for then you would rest there and not go deeper in real Truth.

    Sorry this is such a long winded post. I had coffee today and I’m wired to the moon!

  26. sos22 said

    Double-G (G²)

    “Just wanted to add that in there, regarding the subject, in light of how JUST AS COUPLES MUST SPEND TIME WITH EACH OTHER IF THEY’RE TO LEARN EACH OTHER’S SECRETS and BECOME ONE IN MIND/SOUL AND BODY WITH ONE ANOTHER, so we CANNOT BE ONE WITH THE FATHER AND UNDERSTAND HIM FULLY IF WE DON’T SPEND TIME WITH HIM AS WELL…..and IMO, GOD’S REMAINING MYSTERIOUS can be a way of FORCING US TO REALLY INVESTIGATE HIM/BECOME ONE WITH HIM since ONLY THROUGH COMMUNING WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN WE RELATE TO HIM AND KNOW HIS MYSTERIES……but apart from that, just as you wouldn’t entrust yourself or BE EASILY READABLE in a relationship with anyone who didn’t show any sign of truly desiring you/acknowledging you REGARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCES, WHY WOULD NOT DO DIFFERENTLY?

    Love to hear your thoughts sometime, sis…….”””

    I think this is to be the heart of our relationship with Christ – time ‘wasted’ on Him, just being with Him, resting with Him, loving Him and being loved. Although His love is openly available, His heart takes time to know, as with any person.

    ‘Call to Me, and I will show you deep and unsearchable things you do not know’

    This knowledge is open to all and but not all find it because it takes time in His presence to learn it.

    I believe it is just as in marriage – that time spent alone together is at the heart of relationship with God, beyond all we do or say for Him.
    __________________

  27. Double-G (G2) said

    And in all of what you said, I THINK WE’VE REACHED THE JACKPOT (THOUGH I cannot believe you apologized for being long-winded….and for that matter, to ME OF ALL PEOPLE)

    Seriously, though, regarding your highly insightful statements:

    Quote:
    Wonderful though marriage and family can be, the man wants to be wanted for himself, not just so he can be a means to an end. God is the same. He too longs to be desired for Himself not just what He can give, therefore the only rock He will give us to stand on, the only sure thing, is Himself, otherwise for many of us He would just be a means to an end; healing, wealth, properity, whatever.

    Quote:

    regarding other things He is so unpredictable! The love never falters but its expression often does. I think He does not want us to become stuck on a particular blessing, many of which he showers on us, because then, without meaning to, we would rest on it, instead of on Him.

    Quote:
    He never hides His love, He is as utterly naked and open about that as He could be, culminating in its ultimate expression on Good Friday. But regarding His blessings, although He is utterly extravagant with them He never displays formuala or predictability, lest we rely on them rather than Him.

    [QUOTE]God says, no certainties but Me, for then you would rest there and not go deeper in real Truth.[/QUOTE]

    And with all of that said, I think that one can conclude the discussion (unlesss of course I or another start something back up, and most likely we will )

    For the only thing that’s certain in this life is the LOVE THAT GOD HAS FOR US and the CHARACTER BEHIND IT…..AND THAT THE NATURE THAT His love is displayed in may be different from time to time, BUT IT’S EVERLASTING LOVE NONETHELESS….that regardless of the form we’d like Him to demonstrate His POWER, that AT LEAST IT’LL SOMEHOW BE DEMONSTRATED (hence, why no one can place formula/predictability on the Lord Ways, though confidence/expectancy on Him ACTING is another issue)

    Quote:
    Psalm 46

    For the director of music. Of the Sons of Korah. According to Alamoth. A song. [a] 1 God is our refuge and strength,
    an ever-present help in trouble.

    2 Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way
    and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea,
    3 though its waters roar and foam
    and the mountains quake with their surging.
    Selah
    4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God,
    the holy place where the Most High dwells.
    5 God is within her, she will not fall;
    God will help her at break of day.
    6 Nations are in uproar, kingdoms fall;
    he lifts his voice, the earth melts.
    7 The LORD Almighty is with us;
    the God of Jacob is our fortress.
    Selah
    8 Come and see the works of the LORD,
    the desolations he has brought on the earth.
    9 He makes wars cease to the ends of the earth;
    he breaks the bow and shatters the spear,
    he burns the shields [b] with fire.

    10 “Be still, and know that I am God;
    I will be exalted among the nations,
    I will be exalted in the earth.”

    11 The LORD Almighty is with us;
    the God of Jacob is our fortress.
    Selah

    Quote:
    Psalm 73

    A psalm of Asaph.

    Surely God is good to Israel,
    to those who are pure in heart. 2 But as for me, my feet had almost slipped;
    I had nearly lost my foothold.
    3 For I envied the arrogant
    when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
    4 They have no struggles;
    their bodies are healthy and strong. [a]
    5 They are free from the burdens common to man;
    they are not plagued by human ills.
    6 Therefore pride is their necklace;
    they clothe themselves with violence.
    7 From their callous hearts comes iniquity [b] ;
    the evil conceits of their minds know no limits.
    8 They scoff, and speak with malice;
    in their arrogance they threaten oppression.
    9 Their mouths lay claim to heaven,
    and their tongues take possession of the earth.
    10 Therefore their people turn to them
    and drink up waters in abundance. [c]
    11 They say, “How can God know?
    Does the Most High have knowledge?”
    12 This is what the wicked are like—
    always carefree, they increase in wealth.
    13 Surely in vain have I kept my heart pure;
    in vain have I washed my hands in innocence.

    14 All day long I have been plagued;
    I have been punished every morning.
    15 If I had said, “I will speak thus,”
    I would have betrayed your children.
    16 When I tried to understand all this,
    it was oppressive to me
    17 till I entered the sanctuary of God;
    then I understood their final destiny.

    18 Surely you place them on slippery ground;
    you cast them down to ruin.
    19 How suddenly are they destroyed,
    completely swept away by terrors!

    20 As a dream when one awakes,
    so when you arise, O Lord,
    you will despise them as fantasies.
    21 When my heart was grieved
    and my spirit embittered,
    22 I was senseless and ignorant;
    I was a brute beast before you.

    23 Yet I am always with you;
    you hold me by my right hand.
    24 You guide me with your counsel,
    and afterward you will take me into glory.

    25 Whom have I in heaven but you?
    And earth has nothing I desire besides you.

    26 My flesh and my heart may fail,
    but God is the strength of my heart
    and my portion forever.

    27 Those who are far from you will perish;
    you destroy all who are unfaithful to you.
    28 But as for me, it is good to be near God.
    I have made the Sovereign LORD my refuge;
    I will tell of all your deeds.

    Quote:
    Psalm 125

    A song of ascents.

    1 Those who trust in the LORD are like Mount Zion,
    which cannot be shaken but endures forever.

    Psalm 112

    1[a] Praise the LORD. [b]
    Blessed is the man who fears the LORD,
    who finds great delight in his commands.

    2 His children will be mighty in the land;
    the generation of the upright will be blessed.

    3 Wealth and riches are in his house,
    and his righteousness endures forever.
    4 Even in darkness light dawns for the upright,
    for the gracious and compassionate and righteous man. [c]

    5 Good will come to him who is generous and lends freely,
    who conducts his affairs with justice.

    6 Surely he will never be shaken;
    a righteous man will be remembered forever.

    7 He will have no fear of bad news;
    his heart is steadfast, trusting in the LORD.

    8 His heart is secure, he will have no fear;
    in the end he will look in triumph on his foes.

    9 He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor,
    his righteousness endures forever;
    his horn [d] will be lifted high in honor.

    10 The wicked man will see and be vexed,
    he will gnash his teeth and waste away;
    the longings of the wicked will come to nothing.

    Quote:
    Proverbs 14:26
    He who fears the LORD has a secure fortress, and for his children it will be a refuge.

    Quote:
    Isaiah 26:2-4

    2 Open the gates
    that the righteous nation may enter,
    the nation that keeps faith.
    3 You will keep in perfect peace
    him whose mind is steadfast,
    because he trusts in you.
    4 Trust in the LORD forever,
    for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.

    ……And as with all of God’s Blessings (including and ESPECIALLY HEALING), though it’s good to have and God does often give it, with or without , The BLESSER/GIVER IS WHO WE SHOULD BE SEEKING ABOVE ALL AND CONTENT WITH rather than THE BLESSINGS/GIFTS HE COMES WITH but may WITHHOLD AT TIMES….and for that matter, which are NOT CONSTANT/CERTAIN, IMO…..

    Something which you’ll hear often on TBN, the WORD NETWORK or elsewhere:

    Quote:

    Proverbs 10:22
    The blessing of the LORD brings makes one rich,, and he adds no trouble to it (or sorrow with it).

    Contrary to how it is taught often, I think people should realize that it’s ultimately NOT the BLESSINGS (i.e. What He can give) of God that enrich us….but rather the BLESSING (APPROVAL) of the Lord HIMSELF. For THE BLESSINGS CAN COME AND GO AT ANYTIME, AND ULTIMATELY WILL FADE WITH TIME……BUT when we’re TRULY seeking the BEAUTIFUL FACE OF OUR LORD, as the couple in our church realized, ANY CIRCUMSTANCE CAN BE TRANSFORMED BEYOND IMPOVERISHED SETTINGS NOT WORTH BEHOLDING INTO SETTINGS OF BEAUTY WORTH LIVING FOR……..WORKS OF ART….LIVING MASTERPIECES THAT HE CAN STAND BACK ON AND MARVEL IN SAYING “IT IS GOOD” (Genesis 1:1-31)

    For every time of struggle and tears through which we must pass o our way to meet God, one must realize that growing strong in Him is often preceded by a journey through barren places in our lives……but Regardless of life’s journeys or the pilgramages we will walk on as we journey toward the Lord, the one IN TRUE LOVE WITH JESUS will SEE ADVERSITY AS NOTHING BUT SHEER OPPORTUNITY IN EXPERIENCING GOD’S FAITHFULNESS AND WITNESSING CHRIST’S POWER MORE EVEN MORE DEEPLY THAN BEFORE, REGARDLESS OF THE MEANS/WAY IT COMES IN OR THE TIME IT IS DEMONSTRATED……AND every VALLEY OF BACA (meaning “weeping”), can be turned into SPRINGS OF LIFE IF ONLY WE’D ALLOW OUR HEARTS TO BE SET ON GOD AND NOT AWAY FROM HIM

    Quote:
    Psalm 84

    For the director of music. According to gittith. Of the Sons of Korah. A psalm. [a]

    1 How lovely is your dwelling place,
    O LORD Almighty! 2 My soul yearns, even faints,
    for the courts of the LORD;
    my heart and my flesh cry out
    for the living God.

    3 Even the sparrow has found a home,
    and the swallow a nest for herself,
    where she may have her young—
    a place near your altar,
    O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
    4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house;
    they are ever praising you.
    Selah

    5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
    who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
    6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca,
    they make it a place of springs;
    the autumn rains also cover it with pools. [b]
    7 They go from strength to strength,
    till each appears before God in Zion.
    8 Hear my prayer, O LORD God Almighty;
    listen to me, O God of Jacob.
    Selah

    9 Look upon our shield, [c] O God;
    look with favor on your anointed one.

    10 Better is one day in your courts
    than a thousand elsewhere;
    I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
    than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

    11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield;
    the LORD bestows favor and honor;
    no good thing does he withhold
    from those whose walk is blameless.

    12 O LORD Almighty,
    blessed is the man who trusts in you.

    Gotta bounce, but till next time, PEACE N’ BLESSINGS, SIS…….

  28. emissary7 said

    Psalm 112

    1[a] Praise the LORD. [b]
    Blessed is the man who fears the LORD,
    who finds great delight in his commands.

    2 His children will be mighty in the land;
    the generation of the upright will be blessed.

    3 Wealth and riches are in his house,
    and his righteousness endures forever.
    4 Even in darkness light dawns for the upright,
    for the gracious and compassionate and righteous man. [c]

    5 Good will come to him who is generous and lends freely,
    who conducts his affairs with justice.

    6 Surely he will never be shaken;
    a righteous man will be remembered forever.

    7 He will have no fear of bad news;
    his heart is steadfast, trusting in the LORD.

    8 His heart is secure, he will have no fear;
    in the end he will look in triumph on his foes.

    9 He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor,
    his righteousness endures forever;
    his horn [d] will be lifted high in honor.

    10 The wicked man will see and be vexed,
    he will gnash his teeth and waste away;
    the longings of the wicked will come to nothing.

    Quote:
    Proverbs 14:26
    He who fears the LORD has a secure fortress, and for his children it will be a refuge.

    Quote:
    Isaiah 26:2-4

    2 Open the gates
    that the righteous nation may enter,
    the nation that keeps faith.
    3 You will keep in perfect peace
    him whose mind is steadfast,
    because he trusts in you.
    4 Trust in the LORD forever,
    for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.

    ……And as with all of God’s Blessings (including and ESPECIALLY HEALING), though it’s good to have and God does often give it, with or without , The BLESSER/GIVER IS WHO WE SHOULD BE SEEKING ABOVE ALL AND CONTENT WITH rather than THE BLESSINGS/GIFTS HE COMES WITH but may WITHHOLD AT TIMES….and for that matter, which are NOT CONSTANT/CERTAIN, IMO…..

    Something which you’ll hear often on TBN, the WORD NETWORK or elsewhere:

    Quote:

    Proverbs 10:22
    The blessing of the LORD brings makes one rich,, and he adds no trouble to it (or sorrow with it).

    Contrary to how it is taught often, I think people should realize that it’s ultimately NOT the BLESSINGS (i.e. What He can give) of God that enrich us….but rather the BLESSING (APPROVAL) of the Lord HIMSELF. For THE BLESSINGS CAN COME AND GO AT ANYTIME, AND ULTIMATELY WILL FADE WITH TIME……BUT when we’re TRULY seeking the BEAUTIFUL FACE OF OUR LORD, as the couple in our church realized, ANY CIRCUMSTANCE CAN BE TRANSFORMED BEYOND IMPOVERISHED SETTINGS NOT WORTH BEHOLDING INTO SETTINGS OF BEAUTY WORTH LIVING FOR……..WORKS OF ART….LIVING MASTERPIECES THAT HE CAN STAND BACK ON AND MARVEL IN SAYING “IT IS GOOD” (Genesis 1:1-31)

    For every time of struggle and tears through which we must pass o our way to meet God, one must realize that growing strong in Him is often preceded by a journey through barren places in our lives……but Regardless of life’s journeys or the pilgramages we will walk on as we journey toward the Lord, the one IN TRUE LOVE WITH JESUS will SEE ADVERSITY AS NOTHING BUT SHEER OPPORTUNITY IN EXPERIENCING GOD’S FAITHFULNESS AND WITNESSING CHRIST’S POWER MORE EVEN MORE DEEPLY THAN BEFORE, REGARDLESS OF THE MEANS/WAY IT COMES IN OR THE TIME IT IS DEMONSTRATED……AND every VALLEY OF BACA (meaning “weeping”), can be turned into SPRINGS OF LIFE IF ONLY WE’D ALLOW OUR HEARTS TO BE SET ON GOD AND NOT AWAY FROM HIM

    Quote:
    Psalm 84

    For the director of music. According to gittith. Of the Sons of Korah. A psalm. [a]

    1 How lovely is your dwelling place,
    O LORD Almighty! 2 My soul yearns, even faints,
    for the courts of the LORD;
    my heart and my flesh cry out
    for the living God.

    3 Even the sparrow has found a home,
    and the swallow a nest for herself,
    where she may have her young—
    a place near your altar,
    O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
    4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house;
    they are ever praising you.
    Selah

    5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
    who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
    6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca,
    they make it a place of springs;
    the autumn rains also cover it with pools. [b]
    7 They go from strength to strength,
    till each appears before God in Zion.
    8 Hear my prayer, O LORD God Almighty;
    listen to me, O God of Jacob.
    Selah

    9 Look upon our shield, [c] O God;
    look with favor on your anointed one.

    10 Better is one day in your courts
    than a thousand elsewhere;
    I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
    than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

    11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield;
    the LORD bestows favor and honor;
    no good thing does he withhold
    from those whose walk is blameless.

    12 O LORD Almighty,
    blessed is the man who trusts in you.

    Gotta bounce, but till next time, PEACE N’ BLESSINGS, SIS…….

  29. emissary7 said

    HOW MUCH CAN ONE REALLY DO THAT WHEN/IF THEY’RE MORE CONCERNED WITH GOD’S GIFTS than they ARE CONTENT WITH HIM AND KNOWING WHO HE IS AND SEEING HIS POWER ALONE MANIFESTED IN THEIR LIVES HOWEVER IT COMES.

    Even with everything else one could want in life, Nothing else truly matters apart from serving HIM/KNOWING HIM REGARDLESS…….

    Quote:
    Ecclesiastes 2

    Pleasures Are Meaningless

    1 I thought in my heart, “Come now, I will test you with pleasure to find out what is good.” But that also proved to be meaningless. 2 “Laughter,” I said, “is foolish. And what does pleasure accomplish?” 3 I tried cheering myself with wine, and embracing folly—my mind still guiding me with wisdom. I wanted to see what was worthwhile for men to do under heaven during the few days of their lives.

    4 I undertook great projects: I built houses for myself and planted vineyards. 5 I made gardens and parks and planted all kinds of fruit trees in them. 6 I made reservoirs to water groves of flourishing trees. 7 I bought male and female slaves and had other slaves who were born in my house. I also owned more herds and flocks than anyone in Jerusalem before me. 8 I amassed silver and gold for myself, and the treasure of kings and provinces. I acquired men and women singers, and a harem [a] as well—the delights of the heart of man. 9 I became greater by far than anyone in Jerusalem before me. In all this my wisdom stayed with me.

    10 I denied myself nothing my eyes desired;
    I refused my heart no pleasure.
    My heart took delight in all my work,
    and this was the reward for all my labor.
    11 Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done
    and what I had toiled to achieve,
    everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind;
    nothing was gained under the sun.
    Wisdom and Folly Are Meaningless

    12 Then I turned my thoughts to consider wisdom,
    and also madness and folly.
    What more can the king’s successor do
    than what has already been done? 13 I saw that wisdom is better than folly,
    just as light is better than darkness.

    14 The wise man has eyes in his head,
    while the fool walks in the darkness;
    but I came to realize
    that the same fate overtakes them both.

    15 Then I thought in my heart,
    “The fate of the fool will overtake me also.
    What then do I gain by being wise?”
    I said in my heart,
    “This too is meaningless.”

    16 For the wise man, like the fool, will not be long remembered;
    in days to come both will be forgotten.
    Like the fool, the wise man too must die!
    Toil Is Meaningless

    17 So I hated life, because the work that is done under the sun was grievous to me. All of it is meaningless, a chasing after the wind. 18 I hated all the things I had toiled for under the sun, because I must leave them to the one who comes after me. 19 And who knows whether he will be a wise man or a fool? Yet he will have control over all the work into which I have poured my effort and skill under the sun. This too is meaningless. 20 So my heart began to despair over all my toilsome labor under the sun.

    21 For a man may do his work with wisdom, knowledge and skill, and then he must leave all he owns to someone who has not worked for it. This too is meaningless and a great misfortune. 22 What does a man get for all the toil and anxious striving with which he labors under the sun? 23 All his days his work is pain and grief; even at night his mind does not rest. This too is meaningless.

    24 A man can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in his work. This too, I see, is from the hand of God, 25 for without him, who can eat or find enjoyment? 26 To the man who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

    Quote:
    Ecclesiastes 3

    A Time for Everything

    1 There is a time for everything,
    and a season for every activity under heaven: 2 a time to be born and a time to die,
    a time to plant and a time to uproot,
    3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
    a time to tear down and a time to build,
    4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
    a time to mourn and a time to dance,
    5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
    a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
    6 a time to search and a time to give up,
    a time to keep and a time to throw away,
    7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
    a time to be silent and a time to speak,
    8 a time to love and a time to hate,
    a time for war and a time for peace.

    9 What does the worker gain from his toil? 10 I have seen the burden God has laid on men. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. 13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God. 14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him.
    15 Whatever is has already been,
    and what will be has been before;
    and God will call the past to account. [a]
    16 And I saw something else under the sun:
    In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
    in the place of justice—wickedness was there.
    17 I thought in my heart,
    “God will bring to judgment
    both the righteous and the wicked,
    for there will be a time for every activity,
    a time for every deed.”

    18 I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath [b] ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal [c] goes down into the earth?”

    22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

    Quote:
    Ecclesiastes 12

    1 Remember your Creator
    in the days of your youth,
    before the days of trouble come
    and the years approach when you will say,
    “I find no pleasure in them”-
    2 before the sun and the light
    and the moon and the stars grow dark,
    and the clouds return after the rain;
    3 when the keepers of the house tremble,
    and the strong men stoop,
    when the grinders cease because they are few,
    and those looking through the windows grow dim;
    4 when the doors to the street are closed
    and the sound of grinding fades;
    when men rise up at the sound of birds,
    but all their songs grow faint;
    5 when men are afraid of heights
    and of dangers in the streets;
    when the almond tree blossoms
    and the grasshopper drags himself along
    and desire no longer is stirred.
    Then man goes to his eternal home
    and mourners go about the streets.
    6 Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
    or the golden bowl is broken;
    before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
    or the wheel broken at the well,
    7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
    and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
    8 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. [a]
    “Everything is meaningless!”
    The Conclusion of the Matter

    9 Not only was the Teacher wise, but also he imparted knowledge to the people. He pondered and searched out and set in order many proverbs. 10 The Teacher searched to find just the right words, and what he wrote was upright and true.

    11 The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. 12 Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.
    Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.

    13 Now all has been heard;
    here is the conclusion of the matter:
    Fear God and keep his commandments,
    for this is the whole duty of man.
    14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
    including every hidden thing,
    whether it is good or evil.

    Quote:
    Matthew 16:25-26

    25For whoever wants to save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

    Quote:
    Philippians 3:7-9

    But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.

    PEACE……..

  30. Osita said

    Amen!!!!!!!!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Double-G (G²)
    Ditto on that……and like I’ve been trying to show in this thread, HOW MUCH CAN ONE REALLY DO THAT WHEN/IF THEY’RE MORE CONCERNED WITH GOD’S GIFTS than they ARE CONTENT WITH HIM AND KNOWING WHO HE IS AND SEEING HIS POWER ALONE MANIFESTED IN THEIR LIVES HOWEVER IT COMES.

    Even with everything else one could want in life, Nothing else truly matters apart from serving HIM/KNOWING HIM REGARDLESS…….

    PEACE……..

    Double G,

    NOTHING MATTERS… To know God is to LOVE HIM.. WOW!!!!!

    WHAT more can any one desire’~~ the true love of Christ is more than enough compared to anything that this world can offer!

    That is the problem here in society.. Christian included… We do not put HIS love first… (we are selfish)… If we would just let that love touch our hearts… WOW!!!!!! everything will go away ..no matter wat happens in our life…. yes!

    Maybe I can not write down my deepest thoughts.. as others can..
    which., honestly sos,, does a beautiful job, I do understand all you
    have written Double G… and the reason maybe I do not respond …cuz
    you express everything very well.. very well…. what can I say??

    So I say AMEN!!!!!! I agree!!!!

    Thank you .. for your threads… to me .. they are very helpful.. and much more..

    In His love… THE BEST LOVE IN THE WORLD!!!!

    Osita

  31. Double-G (G2) said

    Quote:
    SOS22: In that sense He seems often not to be where you last saw Him. His disciples left a dead body in the tomb, but that is not where He was when they returned, He was awake, living and strong in the garden, which is where Mary found Him. Even in little things He does this. Music often reminds me of Him. A chord of music is so complete and multi-layered that sometimes I stop stock still when I hear a certain piece of music and weep. It reminds me of Him. If I play and play that music over and over soon the sense of Him leaves it. He does not stay long in one place so that I know the music was only an echo of Him. Do I make any sense with all of this?

    By the way, had to say how much I lOVED THAT ANALOGY YOU GAVE….and yes, it MADE PERFECT SENSE!!!!!

    By the way, on a bit of a seperate note, reminded me of the importance of making sure that we come into HIS PRESENCE and, regardless of our circumstances, CHOOSE TO BE STILL BEFORE HIM AND LISTEN rather than dictate to Him what we think we should do OR WHAT WE DEMAND HE SHOULD DO ALSO (regarding those who demand/LOOK TO HEALING/GOD’S PHYSICAL BLESSINGS ON THE SPOT AS THE SOLE DEMONSTRATION OF HIS POWER.)……for US to do so and for HIM TO SUBMIT TO OUR REQUESTS/DREAMS ALONE is to do nothing more than to OVERLOOK THE VARIOUS COMPOSITIONS OF THE DIFFERING MELODIES (I.E. THINGS/TUNES AND EMOTIONS/TRAITS) OF WHAT HE DESIRES TO DO/SHOW OF HIMSELF AT DIFFERNT POINTS IN OUR LIVES….AND IF WE’RE NOT CAREFUL, SURELY WE’LL MISS THE INTRO/LOSE SIGHT OF THE MEANING OF THE SONG……..for LISTENING/BEING OPEN is KEY IF WE’RE TO APPRECIATE THE EXPRESSIONS/MASTERPIECE OF GOD’S WORK IN OUR LIVES:

    Quote:
    Quote:
    Ecclesiastes 5:1-7

    Stand in Awe of God

    1 Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. Go near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, who do not know that they do wrong.

    2 Do not be quick with your mouth,
    do not be hasty in your heart
    to utter anything before God.
    God is in heaven
    and you are on earth,
    so let your words be few.

    3 As a dream comes when there are many cares,
    so the speech of a fool when there are many words.

    4 When you make a vow to God, do not delay in fulfilling it. He has no pleasure in fools; fulfill your vow. 5 It is better not to vow than to make a vow and not fulfill it. 6 Do not let your mouth lead you into sin. And do not protest to the temple messenger, “My vow was a mistake.” Why should God be angry at what you say and destroy the work of your hands? 7 Much dreaming and many words are meaningless. Therefore stand in awe of God.

    And, just as the analogy with Music Illustrates, to become TOO FAMILAR WITH SOMETHING is the BEGINNING of LOSING ONE’S AWE FOR IT, as it was in Jesus’s TIME when He CHOSE NOT TO/REFUSED to do GREATER MIRACLES AT ONE POINT because of THE PEOPLE’S PRIDE AND UNBELIEF…..for they were TOO CLOSE TO THE SITUATION TO SEE CHRIST FOR WHO HE WAS, AND HIS CHOOSING TO WORK MIRCALES would’ve caused the people to become even more HARDENED IN THEIR HEARTS AGAINST HIM (which, in that case, HIS REFUSAL TO DO MIRACULOUS THINGS WAS AN ACT OF MERCY rather than A WITHHOLDING OF IT….AND PERHAPS THE SAME IS TRUE TODAY FOR US WHENEVER OUR HEARTS ARE NOT RIGHT WITH OUR LOVER!)…..

    Quote:
    SOS22: the reason that Christ moves in way you describe is that He too is not very different from the men He has created. For example – every man runs a mile instinctively from a woman who is so eager for marriage and family, that she will marry any man who will have her. Wonderful though marriage and family can be, the man wants to be wanted for himself, not just so he can be a means to an end. God is the same. He too longs to be desired for Himself not just what He can give, therefore the only rock He will give us to stand on, the only sure thing, is Himself, otherwise for many of us He would just be a means to an end; healing, wealth, properity, whatever.

    Too true, and in line with the above comment, it was WISE/NECESSARY FOR CHRIST TO WITHHOLD INVOLVING HIMSELF IN THE LIVES OF NAZARETH WITH THE MIRACULOUS, FOR the Miracles He did would’ve had little effect on the people if they did not FIRST LOVE/ACCEPT HIS MESSAGE AND BELIEVE IN WHO HE WAS AND LOVE HIM FOR HIM……..

    Quote:
    Quote:
    Mark 6:1-6

    A Prophet Without Honor

    1Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.

    “Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! 3Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
    4Jesus said to them, “Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor.”

    5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6And he was amazed at their lack of faith

    Just wanted to add that in there, for in our relationship with CHRIST, I think we at times often forget that for Him to perform on our terms when we FIRST HAVE NOT FALLEN IN LOVE WITH THE MESSENGER is to set oneself up for REJECTING THE MESSAGE LATER ON WHEN IT MAY BE DELIVERED IN A PACKAGE NOT IN LINE WITH WHAT WAS EXPECTED

    For though many came to Him to get in contact with the HEALING TOUCH OF JESUS, for many it was merely a symbol of good fortune, a lucky charm, or a magician……and instead of desiring God’s pardon and love, they only wanted physical healing and to see SPECTACULAR EVENTS, just as some still do when they see God as a cosmic magician or consider prayer as a means to get God to do HIS TRICKS/WHAT WE WANT……

    But God is not a magician, but rather the MASTER AND LOVER OF OUR SOULS……and to see Him as any less is to prepare oneself for experiencing the POWER OF GOD but not appreciating the PERSON/HEART OF GOD…..to DESIRE AND SEEK HIS WORKS RATHER THAN HIS WAYS (which is what the Children of Israel did, seeing that they saw PLENTY OF HIS MIRACULOUS WORKS, but never UNDERSTOOD HIS WAYS—– Psalm 95, Hebrews 3, etc)…….and evventually, just like many IN THE SAME CROWD who followed/CELEBRATED Jesus, to DENY HIM WHEN HE DOESN’T PERFORM THE WAY WE DESIRE HIM TO OR THINK HE SHOULD, just as the people DENOUNCED THE LOVE OF THE SAVIOR BECAUSE HE WAS NOT FUFILLING THEIR HOPES AND IDEAS OF WHAT A TRUE MESSIAH WAS (Luke 19:28-44, John 12:12-19, )

    Quote:
    Quote:
    Matthew 27:15-26

    15Now it was the governor’s custom at the Feast to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. 16At that time they had a notorious prisoner, called Barabbas. 17So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you: Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?” 18For he knew it was out of envy that they had handed Jesus over to him.

    19While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.”

    20But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

    21″Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor.
    “Barabbas,” they answered.
    22″What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called Christ?” Pilate asked.
    They all answered, “Crucify him!”
    23″Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.
    But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

    24When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”

    25All the people answered, “Let his blood be on us and on our children!”
    26Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.

    Quote:
    Quote:
    John 19:14-16

    4It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour.
    “Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.

    15But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!”
    “Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked.

    “We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.
    16Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

    And in light of all of that, what would you say is your response to the love of our SAVIOR? HAVE WE BECOME TO FAMILAR WITH HIM in what we aSK FOR and ARE WE RUNNING TO HIM FOR WHAT WE CAN GET rather than WHAT WE CAN GIVE TO HIM? DO WE LOVE THE ONE who EMPOWERS US or the POWER HE give US? Do we LOVE THE MESSENGER that we may also RECIEVE THE MESSAGE? AND DO WE LOVE HIM AS HE IS or for WHAT WE’D LIKE HIM TO BE?

    As Ms. Osita said BEFORE, HIS LOVE IS ALL THAT’S NEEDED……BUT ARE WE CONTENT WITH ALL THAT’S FOUND WITHIN HIS LOVE? For anything more may be DEADLY not only to OURSELVES, but to the LOVE/ATTRACTION WE HAVE FOR HIM….AND DISMANTLING OF THE VERY CORE OF OUR RELATION TO HIM….AND MOREOVER, IDOLATROUS WHEN OUR DESIRE FROM GOD EXCCEDES OUR DESIRE FOR HIM……………. LOVING THE GIFTS MORE THAN THE GIVER.?

    Quote:
    Quote:

    Philippians 3:7-11

    7But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

    Just a thought………..PEACE

  32. Double-G (G2) said

    Whew!!!!!!!!

  33. harry said

    Do Your eyes get tired after all that?

    harry

  34. Double-G (G2) said

    Nope…….

    Was wired by God to assimilate/divulge (share) LARGE AMOUNTS OF INFO in a pretty quick amount of time…..

    But the “whew” was simply playful banter (as has been taking place between SOS22 and others while writing out/sharing our LONG/DETAILED thought processes)…

    Hope that clarifies……and by the way, love to hear your thoughts on the issue if you have any…but if not, cool. Blessings, still…..

  35. sos22 said

    Wonderful posts G2. As always I love the relevant Scripture you provide. I’m going to share the following verse with Laurie – we’ve been discussing Christ as strength in the valley when all else is lost and fails;

    ‘He who fears the Lord has a secure fortress, and for His children it will be a refuge.’ Prov 14-26

    ‘My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion for ever.’ Psalm 73-26 This verse I used to believe in but had no experience of. Now I KNOW it to be true.

    ‘Whom have I in heaven but You?
    And earth has nothing I desire
    besides You’. Prov 14-26

    This last verse is at the heart of it – Him alone. And somewhere in your posts you explored the idea that if we value the gifts more than the Giver, He may be forced to hold back the gifts till we learn to love Him first for Himself for that is where true joy lies. This is true, He does do this. And even then, our love for Him is not only of ourselves but a response, an echo, of the overwhelming love He first pours on each of us.

    The poet William Blake put it so well, if only I could remember the darn words properly ; ‘He who would the winged life destroy’….holds tightly to a joy and so destroys it. He who would truly know a joy, lets it fly overhead – enjoys it utterly, but lets it go.

    I’ve just discovered how to do bold print. The excitement!

    It was great to read your words Osita – as ever , and maybe next time Harry will share more…..

  36. Double-G (G2) said

    Osita,

    Proverbs 25:11

    A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver.

    That being said, please know that your words are just as impacting/worthwile as anyone else’s who may be able to write down their deepest thoughts,……for yours are WORDS WELL SPOKEN AND I APPRECIATE THEM, as well as the ENCOURAGEMENT YOU’VE BEEN TO ME AND TOO MANY OTHERS TO COUNT!!!

    Again, thanks for the kind words…….and by the way, feel ya on one of your points:

    Quote:
    the true love of Christ is more than enough compared to anything that this world can offer!

    Sadly, though, as the old saying goes: “DON’T KNOW WHAT REALLY GOT TILL IT’S GONE”…..and many people may end up FORSAKING THE ULTIMATE LOVE—-TRUE LOVE—-that can be found only in CHRIST before they EVER REALIZING THAT WHAT THEY WERE “IN LOVE” with WAS NEVER WORTH BEING LOVED AT ALL. CHERISHED, perhaps, and VALUED……..BUT NEVER LOVED/HELD ONTO (i.e. BLESSINGS LIKE HEALTH. PROSERITY, PLEASRURE) AT THE EXPENSE OF THE ONLY LOVE THAT CAN KEEP YOU—-THE LOVE OF CHRIST

    Quote:
    Psalm 63
    A psalm of David. When he was in the Desert of Judah.

    1 O God, you are my God,
    earnestly I seek you;
    my soul thirsts for you,
    my body longs for you,
    in a dry and weary land
    where there is no water.

    2 I have seen you in the sanctuary
    and beheld your power and your glory.

    3 Because your love is better than life,
    my lips will glorify you.

    4 I will praise you as long as I live,
    and in your name I will lift up my hands.
    5 My soul will be satisfied as with the richest of foods;
    with singing lips my mouth will praise you.
    6 On my bed I remember you;
    I think of you through the watches of the night.

    7 Because you are my help,
    I sing in the shadow of your wings.
    8 My soul clings to you;
    your right hand upholds me.

    9 They who seek my life will be destroyed;
    they will go down to the depths of the earth.
    10 They will be given over to the sword
    and become food for jackals.

    11 But the king will rejoice in God;
    all who swear by God’s name will praise him,
    while the mouths of liars will be silenced.

    Quote:
    Isaiah 55:1-9

    Invitation to the Thirsty

    1 “Come, all you who are thirsty,
    come to the waters;
    and you who have no money,
    come, buy and eat!
    Come, buy wine and milk
    without money and without cost. 2 Why spend money on what is not bread,
    and your labor on what does not satisfy?
    Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good,
    and your soul will delight in the richest of fare.

    3 Give ear and come to me;
    hear me, that your soul may live.
    I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
    my faithful love promised to David.
    4 See, I have made him a witness to the peoples,
    a leader and commander of the peoples.

    5 Surely you will summon nations you know not,
    and nations that do not know you will hasten to you,
    because of the LORD your God,
    the Holy One of Israel,
    for he has endowed you with splendor.”

    6 Seek the LORD while he may be found;
    call on him while he is near.
    7 Let the wicked forsake his way
    and the evil man his thoughts.
    Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him,
    and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
    declares the LORD.

    9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    PEACE……………..

  37. […] https://emissary7.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/god-always-heals-n-must-if-you-have-faith-an-wof-idea-bad-… […]

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