KICKIN’N IT WITH JESUS: Coming back to the reality of how “JESUS IS MY HOMEBOY” doesn’t go with how the HOMEBOY IS HOLY (Part 2)

To anyone interested, I wrote about this before and said I’d write about again:

KICK’N IT WITH JESUS: Getting back to the REAlITY that statement “JESUS IS MY HOMEBOY” doesn’t fit with how the homeboy’s HOLY

Responding to a Postmodern World: World Strategies…..

 

Just wanted to place this out there for anyone who has dealt or is dealing with someone who’s of the mindset that TRUTH IS RELATIVE and that ABSOULUTE TRUTH NO LONGER EXISTS..

         T

http://htod.cdncon.com/o2/rzimht/MP3/JT/JTSMCD201-2-1.mp3

Responding to a Postmodern World: World Strategies, (Part 5 of 5) MP3

Responding to a Postmodern World: World Strategies, (Part 4 of 5) MP3

Responding to a Postmodern World: World Strategies, (Part 3 of 5) MP3

Responding to a Postmodern World: World Strategies, (Part 2 of 5) MP3

Responding to a Postmodern World: World Strategies, (Part 1 of 5) MP3

 Again, these are resources from Just Thinking (RZIM)

 ”Whatever works for you….”

“Your truth is your truth…”

       These are the common statements one will hear in our society today…..and that said, we as Believers need to be equipped to deal with those issues in the process.

         Also, for anyone interested, I’d encourage everyone to please consider investigating these articles on the issue of TRUTH/RELATIVISM from APOLEGETIC MINISTRY CARM, as they’ve been most helpful to me……..

 http://www.carm.org/relativism.htm

Also, if anyone’s interested, please consider investigating this from FOCUS ON THE FAMILY:

http://www.thetruthproject.org/whatistruthproject/index.cfm/

http://www.family.org/faith/Worldview/ 

It’s a new endeavor by Focus on the Family that seeks to teach people to look at life from a biblical perspective. Read a detailed explanation here.

for anyone who’s a youth leader/minister will be especially blessed by them since that’s the mentality that has been invading my generation for the longest time…….it’s even crept into the CHURCH ITSELF, as is the case with the EMERGENT CHURCH….there are many things where they’ve honesty challenged everyone else to step it up. By no means do I support the movement, but I’ve witnessed some of their material (such as the NOOMA Videos, paticularly “SILENCE”) t some of the youth camps I’ve attended….and the stuff was honestly ON POINT.

http://emissary7.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/pbs-airs-a-10-minute-piece-on-the-emergent-churchand-odd-that-pbs-gets-it-better-than-most-of-our-christian-leaders/#comment-229

and for anyone wanting to have some solid information on the issue, please consider these:

 http://www.9marks.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID314526%7CCHID598016%7CCIID2330200,00.html

 http://www.apprising.org/archives/emergent_church/index.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2006/08/ecm-and-gospel-potential-problem-and.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2006/06/emergent-church-movement-and-humility.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/04/emergent-church-movement-gospel.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/emergent-church-movement-gospel.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/07/emergent-church-movement-and-gospel.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/12/ecm-and-gospel-renewing-mind-and-need.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/what-emergent-church-believes-about.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/07/what-emergent-church-believes-about.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/07/what-emergent-church-believes-about_28.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/08/what-emergent-church-believes-about.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/07/emergent-church-movement-gospel.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/emergent-church-and-gospel-andrew.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/emergent-church-movement-and-gospel.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/emergent-church-movement-and-gospel_09.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/emergent-church-movement-miscellanies.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/my-ec-discussions-landed-at-emergent.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/my-ec-discussions-landed-at-emergent.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/06/wilkerson-debate-part-2-tim-boucher.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/07/pbs-reporting-on-ecm.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/08/emergent-church-and-gospel-rob-bells.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/08/emergent-church-movement-and-gospel.html

http://mymiscellanies.blogspot.com/2005/10/perspectives-in-emergent-church.html

      As Joshua Harris said on the issue, 

New Book: Why We’re Not Emergent

 

My friend Justin Taylor, shot me an email this past week about a new book by Kevin Deyoung and Ted Kluck entitled Why We’re Not Emergent. I don’t normally get excited about books coming from a “we’re not that” perspective, but from what I’ve read on the book’s website, these guys seem to be striking a helpful tone. The promotional description reads:

“You can be young, passionate about Jesus Christ, surrounded by diversity, engaged in a postmodern world, reared in evangelicalism and not be an emergent Christian. In fact, I want to argue that it would be better if you weren’t.”
The Emergent Church is a strong voice in today’s Christian community. And they’re talking about good things: caring for the poor, peace for all men, loving Jesus. They’re doing church a new way, not content to fit the mold. Again, all good. But there’s more to the movement than that. Much more.

Kevin and Ted are two guys who, demographically, should be all over this movement. But they’re not. And Why We’re Not Emergent gives you the solid reasons why. From both a theological and an on-the-street perspective, Kevin and Ted diagnose the emerging church. They pull apart interviews, articles, books, and blogs, helping you see for yourself what it’s all about.

And here’s a strong quote from the free sample chapter that they make available on their site:

I’m convinced that a major problem with the emerging church is that they refuse to have their cake and eat it to. The whole movement seems to be built on reductionistic, even modernistic, either-or categories. They pit information versus transformation, believing versus belonging, and propositions about Christ versus the Person of Christ. The emerging church will be a helpful corrective against real, and sometimes perceived, abuses in evangelicalism when they discover the genius of the “and,” and stop forcing us to accept half-truths. Carl Henry is right: “The antithesis of ‘person-revelation’ and ‘proposition-revelation’ can only result in an equally unscriptural contrast of personal faith with doctrinal belief. It is now often said that belief in Christ is something wholly different from belief in truths or propositions. But to lose intelligible revelation spells inescapable loss of any supernatural authorized doctrinal assertions concerning God.”
It is possible for Christians to esteem the Bible wrongly and equate the Bible with God. But it is not possible for Christians to esteem the Bible too highly. Every word in every sentence in every proposition or command or question in the Bible is inspired by God, authoritative, trustworthy, true, useful, and aids our joy in God. Despite their differing interpretations on some matters, Christians of various theological stripes in all ages have believed wholeheartedly in this previous sentence. My hope is that emerging Christians are not departing from it.

For every fundamentalist who loves the Bible more than Christ, I’m willing to bet there is one emergent Christian who honors the Bible less than Christ did. I fear that what starts out as a fancy way of coupling postmodern jargon with biblical authority quickly leads to a loss of confidence in the word of God—a lost confidence that prevents preachers and evangelists from establishing doctrine, ethics, and gospel truth with the words “It is written.”

 

NOT PARTNERING WITH UNBELIEVERS: Where to DRAW THE LINE???

Curious,

Does anyone have any thoughts  concerning working with people not of the faith (i.e. a Muslim or Buddist, or a Jehova’s Witness for example).

Specifically, what to make of situations where one’s job doesn’t require him or her to work alongside someone but yet they are still willing to do community service things like feeding the homeless or rasiing money/starting a fundraiser to helping abused children or even being active in a social/moral issue that the Lord is big on (i.e. the evil of abortion, standing against the push of accepted homosexuality and any other unatural sexual orientation while seeking to provide resources/help for those who struggle with it, etc, domestic violence, applying godly/practical/wise principles for living a healthy lifestlye like manageing finances correctly or couseling troubled youths or watching one’s health and other wise points that can help individuals in everyday life) where both of you agree on something in line with the heart/Word of the Lord while differing on every other point of belief on how to handle it?

Being a Human Services Major in at my college, this is an issue that seems to come up continually and I have wrestled with for some time, and it may be one for others seeking to join the field.

I see where many others are coming from, with  instances in Scripture which say to avoid a person claiming the name/fame of Christ but denying conforming to His nature (1 Corinthians 5),……but what to make of someone who doesn’t even claim allegaiance to the Lord but still seeks to do moral things and genuinely is conerned with helping those in need?

Furthermore, what to make of the various situations throughout Scripture that seem to indicate that those who followed the Lord were often required to work in environments that were not to their liking or, even though they were’nt explicitly evil, often involved things that were contrary to what glorified the Lord fully?

For example, what to make of Namam’s situation and how he was required to hold the arm of hismaster while his master bowed to a pagan idol, even though the Word seems to indicate that he apparently became a believer in the Lord at one point…II Kings 5:1-27 …or individuals like Nehemiah being a cupbearer to a pagan king or Daniel having to study/be immersed in all of the knowledge/magic arts of the Babylonians…Nehemiah 1:1-11 and Daniel 1:1-20…or even the Roman Centurion who had faith in Jesus but still had to work in the Roman Army, which at many various times did cruel things like oppressing people and did/believed many things contrary to what a Christaisn should act like…Matthew 8:5-13, etc…if it comes off as if I’m trying to take things out of context, I greatly apologize and ask for people to please point out anything I may’ve missed cause I really am trying to rightly divide this Word like we should…II Timothy 2:14-17).

Again, Should we avoid working with unbelievers at all levels altogether like the Word seems to advocate that we do to others who rebel against the Lord openly like Jakes and others?

Even if doing so gave one the opportunity to truly show some form of love/compassion and to witness and let their light shine (Matthew 5:14-16) and so that others could see that Christians were actively involved in/genuinely concerned with the community around them, would it be acceptable?

Even in light of how as Christians we’re called to love our enemies (which unbelievers can be considered, since they are not submitted to the Lord and, as Jesus said in Matthew 12:30, those that are not for Him are against Him) and not merely those who love us in return or are of our fellowship (Luke 6:27-36), what to make of it? Again, do ya’ll think that it’s right or wrong, and whatever side you choose, why do think so?

I already went to the Word and , from what I’ve read, have a great deal of what my thoughts on the issue, but I really wanted to see what you or others thought as well…that, and I really wanted a discussion on the topic so I could get sharpened up a bit and have more clarity on the issue. What do you think?

         In asking this question elsewhere, this is what was said to me:

nothing wrong at all with working with someone of a different faith, unless doing so puts you in a position where you have to compromise Christ.

But working WITH someone not of the Faith and PARTNERING with someone not of the Faith are two different things.

Then the Scriptures against being unequally yoked together with unbelievers comes into play.

I can work at a food bank or homeless shelter with a Mormon…………I cannot PARTNER with a Mormon to start a ministry doing so.

The image the Lord was trying to convey with the yoke is the inability for either oxen to follow his own path. By necessity, one cannot turn without the other. If your path is to ultimately present Christ, the Mormon isn’t going to allow you to turn that way, and vice versa. It’s an irreconcilable internal struggle that renders each powerless to follow thier own path. The result must be compromise.

To that, I think seems reasonable…….but nonetheless, there are still more questions that come to my mind.

where does one draw the line with the statement made? Can one even clearly do so at all? Regarding the statement, would  anyone else mind expounding on the subject for that matter as to what the difference is between working with someone to produce something and parterning with someone is to produce something?
It would seem that in both, regardless of the form, that I’m producing the same work regardless and having to set aside/compromise some values of to work together under the same label.

For example, even if I decided not to go into ministry with a Mormon and compromise in order to go the same direction since our directions are contrary to what we believe, it would seem that, even in being silent and stating that I was not in aggreement with the Mormon but was willing to work in the same store as him, I’d be doing a disservice to the Lord. To the average passer-by or someone who didn’t know any better, it would seem that my silence would serve to give credibility to the actions of the Mormon since we’re still working together to produce the same of work (feeding homeless people) that would’ve been accomplished had I simply joined into a ministry with Him.

If that analogy does not make sense, then what to make of a Human Service Worker having to work in a counseling department where he or she is able to preach Christ (with limitations/permission, nowadays seeing how that’s how it is in many sectors) and how he can deliever people from sexual sin and yet has to work alongside a person who opelnly condones homosexuality, counsels people with deceptive counsel and denies that Jesus is the “Way, Truth, and Life” to their clients?

To all who see the company it would seem that, even though the Christian doesn’t agree with others of differing faiths, people would still be getting the impression that the Christian was in league with that company since the company name is recieving credit for everything that takes place? It be like being in an army that was known for opressing people and doing deeds of injustice, as it was for many soldiers in the Roman Empire were Christian and did not agree with many of the ways the other soldiers of and even Rome went about doing things.

 For them to say, “I not in agreement with the way this army/nation goes about handling things, but since I’m a citizen and and have to work here, I’ll do it anyway.” To all those around, those soldiers would still be indirectly considered as part of entire Roman Army and in some way or another, because they would still choose to pay taxes to it and support it by working alongside those who were for it, would not be effectivelly standing against it or giving the impression that they were doing so.

Going back to the analogy of working in a store alongside a Mormon, even if that store wasn’t explicity taking a stand against Christianity, it would be making a stand agaist it by not takinig one, giving offf the impression that Jesus is merely one faith among many and no different/consequential that all others, and in a sense that could be considered a compromise seeing how Christianity requires us to take a stand as the only way to go and to make it known to those who see. I hope I’m making sense in what I’m trying to convey…

Perhaps my logic is a bit off or I may be missing something, but I’d love for somone to please consider expounding more from the Word on what it means to work with someone and partner with someone and what it means practically in everyday life? Any further thoughts on the subject that could help a brotha out?

And for that matter, seeing that the topic connects to wider range of subjects other than this, any thoughts on what to make of smaller differing issues such as paying taxes and patrotism/loyalty to one’s country? Contrary to many folks in the U.S.A who refuse to pay their bills and still claim a “breakthough” of some sort, Jeus Himself paid His taxes and He/The Bible exhorted us to do so as well…highlighting the importance that we have legitimate obligations to both God and the governnment , even though our obligations to God must excede them all and we must choose God first when they conflict (Luke 20:20-26).

 I understand that, apart from situations doing so would put us in a situation where we would have to compromise Christ like denying Jesus Christ as Lord or denying the convictions of the Word, we’re called to submit to governing authorities since the Lord established them and we benefit from many of their services like protection/shelter, etc (Romans 13:1-7).

However, what to make of the fact that many of the taxes we’re required to pay seem to go to support many things that the Lord hates (abortion, for one, and sex-education programs that promote safe sex rather than sexual purity/abstinece, etc). Even though a Christian may not directly support these things and much of the funds given to the government support good things, the fact remains that many by paying regardless continue to support something indirectly that offends the heart of God. Would we not be guilty nonetheless of compromising Christ?Would it be right or wrong for Christians to stop paying taxes/take a stand on things that are contrary to what the Lord loves, or shoud we continue to pay taxes and support our nation at all times while we indirectly encourage immoralty with out resources (i.e. the mentality that because I don’t like doing something, that makes it okay to continue to do it or the mentality that it’s better to choose the lesser of two evils, even though the lesser one is still evil/counter-productive.)?

What is it okay to take a stand on and when? Is seeking to be spotless of supporting evil/wrongdoing innocent in all ways, be it directly or indirectly, being an effective Christian or an ineffective one? How does one go about effectively being in the world but not of it while carrying out Christ’s command to spread His message and make disciples( Matthew 28:16-20 and 1 Corinthians 5:9-10)?

Going along with that,  What would your comments be concerning chaplains? For example, whether they be at a hospital or in the army, they will be required to “serve” those of differing faiths, in addition to working with colleagues of differing faith.

 Can we do so in a way in which the standards are not negotiated on, or are we destined to have compromise regardless of what our best effort not to may be? Is there really any way around it?

Again, going back to what I was wondering about earlier in my prevoius topic, where does one practically draw the line?